Couple of questions about hatching brine shrimp

[Yossu]

Had my first go at hatching brine shrimp the other day, and I want to get some clarification.

I watched loads of videos, and decided to go for a DIY setup to start with. I used a 2 litre lemonade bottle, very much like the one in this video.

Apart from hatching waaaayyyyy too many shrimp for the amount of fish I have, all seemed to go well (apart from me knocking the bottle while scooping the empty egg shells off the top, and losing most of the shrimp down the sink!), but they were a lot smaller than I expected. I bought some Tibetian red brine shrimp eggs from eBay, based on the claim that these were bigger than standard eggs. The shrimp that hatched were so small, that without a magnifying glass, they just looked like light brown spots. It was extremely hard to see any detail. Although the videos are deceptive, I was expecting something bigger.

Is this sort of size normal, or did I get ripped off? The eggs were only slightly more expensive than the others I saw, and I did seem to get a good hatch rate, so I'm not complaining, I just want to know if this is normal, and if there's anything I can do to get bigger shrimp.

My other question is how do I know when to feed them to the fish. All the info I read said to feed them within the first six hours after they hatch, but it's very hard to know when that is. The shrimp are so small that it's difficult to distinguish between hatched shrimp and unhatched eggs.

The fish seemed to enjoy them, as there was a feeding frenzy when I put them in the tanks, so I guess it must have worked out OK.

Anyone able to comment? Thanks

 

[Mikeyboy123]

They are tiny when they hatch. I don’t think it makes any difference what eggs you use, the newly hatched shrimp will be same size. It sounds like you don’t need very many shrimp, in which case I’d recommend this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hobby-21700-Artemia-Breeder/dp/B000RRSIP0/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=3T8LIU9IMEZS6&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.q1GrWLmEVMUUEU8p1YJ7jj8NbTPHOLEC3BNYVtNwUtUTl_mxvv7u3IkaROzb7h4Zp_3NbjW1pxONx4S9ie2zzY4GQXRa4iYsi80vFF2jKjckXq0YPZG5opd40QE7YpLqX0XmPV9raAdJUow2_BngKON9vUCdWzA3q5fRWh5_UW7yEL0caQyvyleL1iq3wieVzFYVHIgUntpG1_RLYMmTiA.nBYmmARzTELlUOiRl2LAKY5jngbkZ5JVTovuoam3R7k&dib_tag=se&keywords=hobby+brine+shrimp+hatchery&qid=1722894636&sprefix=hobby+brine%2Caps%2C225&sr=8-2

It’s dead easy to use and makes it really simple to separate the shrimp from the eggs. I have no connection with Hobby brand, I am recommending it simply because I use it and think it’s good, and I it would suit your requirements.

 

[Yossu]

They are tiny when they hatch. I don’t think it makes any difference what eggs you use, the newly hatched shrimp will be same size.

Oh, so no point in buying these then. Oh well, I'll know for next time.

It sounds like you don’t need very many shrimp, in which case I’d recommend this:

I did look at that, but decided to try the DIY route first. My second batch is bubbling away at the moment, and I only added a much smaller amount of eggs, so we'll see how many I get.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Colin_T]

I don't use 2 bottles. Just 1 bottle with the top cut off to provide a transparent container that is open at the top.
Half fill the container with salt water.
Add 1/4 level teaspoon of dry brineshrimp eggs.
Add an airstone and keep the water warm (24-32C).
The brown eggs hatch in 24-48 hours.

The newly hatched brineshrimp are orange.

To harvest them, remove the airstone and let the container sit for a few minutes.
Have a light on one side if possible to attract the nauplii (baby brineshrimp). The hatched eggs float and unhatched eggs sink. If you have the light aimed at the lower half of the container, the shrimp gather there away from the eggs.
Use an eyedropper to suck the nauplii out.
Squirt the nauplii into the tank that is being fed.
After feeding them off, add the airstone and leave it until you feed again.

Try to use up the nauplii within 48 hours because they lose nutritional value the older they get. When they are 1-2 days old and orange, they are nutrient rich. After a few days they start to look pale pink and aren't that good from a nutrition perspective.

I used to make a new culture every day when breeding fish but a couple of times a week is sufficient if you are using them as a treat to supplement the fish's diet.

The nauplii are tiny and so are the eggs. There are slight differences in the size of the newly hatched brineshrimp but it's not noticeable unless you stick them under a microscope.

If you buy a lot of dry eggs, keep them in the freezer and take a small amount out when you need it. If the eggs are frozen they can last for years.

 

[Yossu]

@Colin_T Thanks for the reply, that's exactly what I've been doing. Glad to hear I'm doing it right

Today's batch were slightly bigger, but from what has been said, I think what I'm seeing is normal. The fish certainly seem to like them!

I'm going to do one or two batches a week, so the shrimp are a supplement.

Do you know if I can reuse the water/salt mix, or if I should make fresh each time?

Thanks again.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Many years ago on another forum I got involved in a Brine shrimp discussion which ended with a member being banned from the site. The brine shrimp discussion resulted when I quoted one of the best articles on the subject of live food I have read and it was written by "Rob Toonen. Professor, Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology, University of Hawaii at Manoa." He is a sw guy, but the nutritional values involved are what they are regardless of whether one hatches them for SW or FW use.

I had a back and forth exchange of emails with Dr. Toonen at the time. He considered jpoining the forum to respond to the person who was ultimately banned. I warned the good Dr. not to join a general forum as he would very quickly run screaming into the night as people with virtually no knowledge would be trying to tell him how wrong he was. He did not join.

There is a very important consideration involved when one is hatching and feeding either BBS or later adult Brine. The nutritional value involved is misunderstood by most of us who use this food, especially live. So,,let's start with this quote from Dr. T's article (italics added by me):

The nutritional value of adult and baby brine shrimp can be very different, and even if we consider only newly hatched baby brine shrimp, it is not possible to make any sweeping generalizations about the nutritional value to your tank. The reason that nutritional value varies so much is because it depends on a number of factors, including the age, the source, and the quality of the brine shrimp “eggs” from which baby brine are hatched how nutritious the newly hatched brine shrimp will be.

Yes, the eggs do matter both in terms of their source and their quality which are also influenced by their age. But the most important consideration in feed brine, especially BBS, is their nutritional content.

When Artemia nauplii first hatch (Instar I), they do not have a complete gut, and it is not until they develop to Instar II that the baby brine start to feed. The time of development to Instar II depends on a variety of factors (most importantly temperature, but also salinity), but occurs within 6 to 30 hours after hatching. At 28°C (roughly 82°F) it takes about 8 hours for the newly hatched nauplii to begin feeding, and as the temperature drops, that time becomes much longer. As soon as the nauplii hatch, they begin to digest their yolk and become less nutritious with time after hatching, however, once they reach the second instar, they can begin to feed, and you can enhance their nutritional value by feeding them.....

What the above means is the longer one waits to feed them after they hatch, the less nutritional value they will have. We are talking a matter of hours before all BBS are pretty but their nutritional value to our fish will be almost none. The fish have no idea when they go after the moving brine what their nutritional value is. They will just eat them. The same applies to adult brine.

Rather than just quoting all of this, I suggest folks who feed brine- either as BBS or adults, read the article. Yes, it was written for SW but it almost all applies to FW fish as well. The one difference it that the SW fish need a higher level of HUFAs than the SW fish. But, aside from that, pretty much everything in the article applies to FW fish.

I have minimal experience hatching and feeding BBS. I did it when I had angels breeding and the fry needed to be given live food. I even used one of the no longer made, Toms Brine Shrimp Hatch and Feed. This was a device one put inside the tank and then added salt and birne shrimp eggs. The newly hatched brine would actually swim out of the device and into the tank. I had a few 100 newly free swimming angel fry and was going away for the weekend so I used two of the hatch and feed devices in the tank. Unfortunately, this was not close to what the fry needed and many died. You can see it here but it is not buyable as it was discontinued yars ago:
https://www.amazon.sg/Koller-Products-Aquarium-Hatchery-TM1198/dp/B002DVREP8

More importanly is one should read Dr. Toonen's article here. Do not be put off that it was written for SW folks as most of the information applies equally to FW fish:
https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium...ive-foods-for-the-coral-reef-aquarium-part-2/

 

[Yossu]

@TwoTankAmin Wow, what an amazing answer! Thanks for posting all of that.

I had read about using them as quickly as possible, and have tried to do that, but it's hard to know when they've hatched. They are so small, that it's hard to tell what's a baby shrimp and what's an egg.

I set a batch going yesterday lunchtime, and switched off the light and air pump at breakfast time today (about 18 hours later). When it settled, I could see there were quite a lot of babies, so I put a load in the tanks and switched the light and air back on again. Did the same thing at lunchtime (24 hours) and will probably do it again at supper time (about 30 hours). Anything left after that will go down the sink!

Thanks again

 

[Colin_T]

Do you know if I can reuse the water/salt mix, or if I should make fresh each time?

Use a new batch of saltwater for each hatchery because the rotting egg shells and nauplii exoskeletons cause ammonia problems.

You can use rock salt, swimming pool salt or sea salt to make the salt water. I used swimming pool salt because it's cheap. You can pick up a 20kg bag for $10.00 from most hardware stores or anywhere that sells stuff for swimming pools. Just keep the bag of salt dry and it will last for years. The salt does sweat a bit over time so don't leave it on wooden floors or carpet.

If you are using brineshrimp as a supplement to the fish's diet and not for baby fish, you can keep the culture going for 2 days and use up as many of the nauplii as possible. It will still benefit the fish and gives them something to chase.

 

[Yossu]

@Colin_T Thanks for the reply. For the small amount I will be hatching, I just pinch some rock salt from the wife's kitchen! I thought I'd need to make fresh salt water each time, but thought it worth checking.

Good to know I can keep it going for another day. The fish will be happy

 

[TwoTankAmin]

BTW- I stopped hatching BBS very soon after I began. The reason is the same reason I have not been in the ocean in over 50 years. I dislike salt water. I hate that feeling when you cmoe out of the ocean and you dry, and then your feel it. And let's not forget the bonus, you get sand in your shorts and everything else.

I hatched my BBS in a 1 gal. mason jar with an airstone. I did not use a heater. The saltwater bubbles would get above the rim and pop. The jar was close to a 10 gal. grow tank. The glass of the tank alongside the mason jar had dried salt all over it all the time. Ubtil I stiooed hatching BBS.

I am not sure how nutritious a 2 day old adult Brine shrimp will be if it has not been fed. recently.

There is trick I learned when it comes to feeding BBS to fry which need live food initially. Before the lake for them crashed andburned, Cyclop-eeze was available dried or frozen. I preferred the frozen. About 5 days after I began feedfing the line BBS to the babies, I began gradually to mix in with the BBS, cyclops. They mixed in with the brine and feeding fenzy kept the cyclops moving. The fish are going after anything moving and they eat the cylcops alongs with the BBS. Over the next week or so I would increase the amount of cyclops and decrease the amount of brine I fed. By then it would be 100% cyclops.

While I know live food is the best food of all to use for most fish, I do not do it. I had neither the time, the space nor the desire to culture, hacth or raise anythin for my fish to eat. I did mess with red wiggler worms for a bit but they have their downside. I do use what I consider to be a next best option, frozen food. A close second are the Repashy Gel Mixes.

The other things I feel strongly about is that most fish need a variety of foods. So have fun feeding the BBS and even adult Brine, But remember, they are rarely a good diet being the sole food one feeds. You can culture other tiny foods or even buy them frozen. I get frozen cyclops and rotifers for my small fish and young fry, as they get bigger I use daphnia as well.

 

[Yossu]

BTW- I stopped hatching BBS very soon after I began. The reason is the same reason I have not been in the ocean in over 50 years. I dislike salt water. I hate that feeling when you cmoe out of the ocean and you dry, and then your feel it. And let's not forget the bonus, you get sand in your shorts and everything else.

Interesting way to look at it. I don't really touch the salt water, so it doesn't really bother me. But the sand in the shorts is definitely a downside to the beach!

I hatched my BBS in a 1 gal. mason jar with an airstone. I did not use a heater. The saltwater bubbles would get above the rim and pop. The jar was close to a 10 gal. grow tank. The glass of the tank alongside the mason jar had dried salt all over it all the time. Ubtil I stiooed hatching BBS.

I'm using a lemonade bottle, so if it does get encrusted with salt, I'll throw it away and catch the next one before it goes in the bin. I also only fill it part way, mainly because I'm not hatching vast amounts of BBS, so even with the bubbles on, the water doesn't get anywhere near the top of the bottle.

I am not sure how nutritious a 2 day old adult Brine shrimp will be if it has not been fed. recently.

As it happens, I think I got this batch about right. I set it going yesterday lunchtime, and fed the fish breakfast, lunch and supper today, and got to the stage where there were so few BBS left in the water that it wasn't worth trying to get them out. So, the oldest were about 30 hours, with most being 18-24, so I should be OK.

The other things I feel strongly about is that most fish need a variety of foods. So have fun feeding the BBS and even adult Brine, But remember, they are rarely a good diet being the sole food one feeds. You can culture other tiny foods or even buy them frozen. I get frozen cyclops and rotifers for my small fish and young fry, as they get bigger I use daphnia as well.

The BBS are definitely not the sole food. I only intend to do this once, maybe twice a week, with the other days using other food.

At the moment, my only other food is some sinking pellets, but I plan on getting some frozen stuff. I used to use bloodworms and (I think) daphnia, but have read recently that bloodworms aren't so good for the fish. Never tried cyclops or rotifers, but willing to give them a go.

Do you recommend anything else? I'm all for a varied diet for them. Thanks again for all the great help.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Here is some really good information from a scientific journal. Read sections 2. Artemia and 2.2. Hatching of Artemia Cysts and Hatching Requirements. Anything else in the link below is more for if you are super curious.
Recent Developments On The Aplication Of Artemia In The Ornamental Fish Culture

Note: Thie above link is for ResearchGate which publishes scientific papers. But the two sections should be easy to undeestand for the most part.

 

[anewbie]

They are tiny when they hatch. I don’t think it makes any difference what eggs you use, the newly hatched shrimp will be same size. It sounds like you don’t need very many shrimp, in which case I’d recommend this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hobby-21700-Artemia-Breeder/dp/B000RRSIP0/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=3T8LIU9IMEZS6&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.q1GrWLmEVMUUEU8p1YJ7jj8NbTPHOLEC3BNYVtNwUtUTl_mxvv7u3IkaROzb7h4Zp_3NbjW1pxONx4S9ie2zzY4GQXRa4iYsi80vFF2jKjckXq0YPZG5opd40QE7YpLqX0XmPV9raAdJUow2_BngKON9vUCdWzA3q5fRWh5_UW7yEL0caQyvyleL1iq3wieVzFYVHIgUntpG1_RLYMmTiA.nBYmmARzTELlUOiRl2LAKY5jngbkZ5JVTovuoam3R7k&dib_tag=se&keywords=hobby+brine+shrimp+hatchery&qid=1722894636&sprefix=hobby+brine%2Caps%2C225&sr=8-2

It’s dead easy to use and makes it really simple to separate the shrimp from the eggs. I have no connection with Hobby brand, I am recommending it simply because I use it and think it’s good, and I it would suit your requirements.

That looks like a knock off of this which is of course a few dollar less expensive and include enough shrimp eggs for 20 years:

Amazon.com

I actually have one of these - it is ok for a few fishes but gets tedious for larger operations. Also bbs is mostly good for frys (parents will eat them too); last but least bbs is only super nutrious the first few days so you need to either put them in the fridge to slow down their growth (don't wait 3 days to do that) or feed them food so they become larger shrimps.

 

[Colin_T]

If you have a 2 litre plastic drink bottle (with the top removed) and half fill the bottle with salt water, you shouldn't have any salt spray over the edge.

Bigger bubbles create less salt spray. Most people don't use an airstone and just have an airline weighted down in the water. If you want to use an airstone, get a multi coloured plastic airstone that can be taken apart and cleaned. they produce bigger bubbles compared to the sand airstones, and produce a lot less salt bubbles and salt creep.

I used a plastic spray bottle with freshwater to rinse the sides of the hatchery down throughout the day to stop salt and eggs creeping up the sides of the container.

 

[Yossu]

@Colin_T I don't have any water spraying out. The bottle is at most half full, and the bubbles from the air line (no airstone, just the pipe pushed down to the bottom) keep the water moving quite vigorously, but the water doesn't come anywhere near the top of the bottle.

I do get a few eggs creeping up the sides, but I either use the large syringe that I take the BBS out with spray some water on them, which washed them back down, or I lift the air line so the end is near the surface, and the extra surface movement (which is still not enough to take the water anywhere near the top of the bottle) washes them back down.