Couple Of Newbie Questions

[orange shark]

Hey,

1. Do you have to have live rock piled all the way up, can it just be one small layer?

2. What does the live rock do?

3. Is it necessary to have that live sand stuff?

As you can see i am completely new to marines so i appreciate every reply.

Thanks in advance, orange shark

 

[jahouli]

Hey,

1. Do you have to have live rock piled all the way up, can it just be one small layer?

2. What does the live rock do?

3. Is it necessary to have that live sand stuff?

As you can see i am completely new to marines so i appreciate every reply.

Thanks in advance, orange shark

Hi,
I'm not the best person to reply but as far as I worked out the weight in kgs of live rock should be about a 3rd of the number of gallons or even half. Ive got 60gallons and 25kgs of rock. It works as some kind of natural filter by absorbing and converting the ammonia or nitrites or something. That live sand stuff - is it a reef tank or fish only. I think in fish only no substrate is really required as you can keep the tank cleaner without it. Live sand introduces beneficial microorganisms, and again works as part of the filtration system. If you want sand dwelling fish you need a good 4inches of substrate - to cut down on costs I put in half live sand and half coral sand. I don't think it's necessary to have live sand but I gathered it's better with it.

Correct me where I'm wrong please.

 

[AndyS]

Depends what kind of live sand it is, the bagged stuff has usually been dry for weeks and therefore really isnt "live" anymore, if you use normal aragnite sand it will be 'seeded' by the live rock and therefore become live sand over time. The only real helpful kind of live sand is if it is taken straight from a well established tank into a new tank. Just use normal aragonite, that will do fine.

I would have a substrate in a FO or FOWLR, the only reason people usually go substrate-less is in a SPS tank, as SPS corals demand high flowrates and this keeps waste from settling on the bottom. If you want to go without sand you NEED good flow rate.

Live rock is a natural filter used in marine tanks, though it is not essential. Live rock contains micro organisms and bacteria to convert Ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrite to Nitrate. If the rock is uncured it can take time to establish this bacteria in your tank, this is what is known as a cycle, if the rock is cured and kept in good conditions you may not even get a cycle.

Read through all the stickies in each section and make sure you do pleanty of research before starting your tank.

Andy

 

[orange shark]

sorry but i dont understand the fish only or reef only. Im wanting to set up a marine tank witht things like yellow tangs so do i need live sand/aragonite sand?

edit: oh and wats FO, FOWLR and SPS?

 

[jahouli]

sorry but i dont understand the fish only or reef only. Im wanting to set up a marine tank witht things like yellow tangs so do i need live sand/aragonite sand?

edit: oh and wats FO, FOWLR and SPS?

Fish only, fish only with live rock and Sps is some kind of coral - I'm not sure what. A reef tank has coral in it, and usually has lots of other invertebrates i.e. shrimps, crabs, snails, starfish. If you want big fish generally people go the fish only route. Reefs systems can't cope with all the fish waste from big fish so you have to go for smaller fish. More than one yellow tang in a reef tank would probably be too much...depending on the size of tank you get of course.
AndyS says just use normal aragonite sand either way.

 

[orange shark]

so is reef with live rock? Cos at my lfs they had a real nice display tank with loads of live rock, a yellow tang, some black spikey looking thing and a clown fish. Is that like the maximum stocking? It was a rio 300

 

[jahouli]

You can have live rock in both reef and fish only aquariums. Big fish eat corals and pollute corals which is why you don't have them in a reef tank. Live rock is fine with fish, and coral is alot of hard work and research. Sounds like you'd be better with a fish and live rock set up to begin with. You can have more fish in a tank without corals too. The rate is something like 1inch of fish to every 2 gallons based on the adult size of the fish. You can't just chuck them all in at the same time though, needs to be stocked fully over about 12 months. But search google for the fish you want to find out the best tank size.

There's some good books, and a hell of a lot of information to take in. Perservere, do your research, and have a plan.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Sorry that I'm about to come across like a complete A******* but given your attitude towards fish keeping [topic="207865"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=207865[/topic] PLEASE dont start a marine tank!

Marine animals are a LOT more sensitive and require a lot more time investiment then tropical fish. You have already proven you dont do not care about the welfare of the animals you keep. Its bad enough when you kill fish but if you start to kill corals as well that is just criminal imo.

If you are serious about setting up a marine tank then be prepeared to spend at least 6 months researching it before you buy anything. Then once the tank is set up be prepeared to have to wait at least 2 months before you can add the first fish and at least a year before you can add the first corals.

 

[WayneVT08]

Sorry that I'm about to come across like a complete A******* but given your attitude towards fish keeping (http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=207865) PLEASE dont start a marine tank!

Marine animals are a LOT more sensitive and require a lot more time investiment then tropical fish. You have already proven you dont do not care about the welfare of the animals you keep. Its bad enough when you kill fish but if you start to kill corals as well that is just criminal imo.

If you are serious about setting up a marine tank then be prepeared to spend at least 6 months researching it before you buy anything. Then once the tank is set up be prepeared to have to wait at least 2 months before you can add the first fish and at least a year before you can add the first corals.

haha thats funny, firstly, if you have a cycle, then yes, 2 months sounds about right. If not, and everything is at 0 for 2 weeks then you can add fish, then maybe 2 months after that you could possibly add corals, just take it slow though. no need to rush.

And for that sounding like and A****** statement, it was, orange shark really does care for the fish and all of it. that statement was uncalled for and he asks those questions so that he can be able to keep saltwter fish, we all asked those questions when we first started. so get off your soapbox now. uncalled for.

and orange shark, I'll try to help you, and I'm sure musho3120 and skifletch will too. they have helped me the most.

 

[rhysiboy]

Fish only tanks basically have the fish in the tank. A fish only tank or FO as its known uses mechanical filters to filter the water. Fish only with live rock - FOWLR has fish and live rock but has no corals. Live rock has aerobic and anerobic bacteria on it and in it. This is the stuff that keeps your tank chemistry good by converting nitrite to nitrate to nitrogen gas, by the time the cycle is complete the tank chemistry of nitrite and nitrate should be at zero but thats only in a perfect world as mos people tend to find they have small nitrate problems. In a FOWLR this isnt too big of a worry because corals are the things that are mainly affected by nitrates. Now if you have a reef tank you have fish, live rock and corals. With this sort of tank you still rely on the live rock to filter the water but you need powerheads to push the water through the live rock and also to give flow to corals. Corals need flowrate to breathe, to expel waste and to shed skins (some corals such as soft corals do this) Another piece ofepuiptment that is good to have for a reeef tank is a Protein Skimmer. If you are wanting to go into a reef tank then there are 3 sections of corals that we generally go by these are Soft corals - the easier branch of the coral spectrum, requitre medium flow and medium light, LPS - large polyped stony corals - How hard they are to look after depends on what LPS it is but as a general rule they are for the aquarist with id say 6 months worth of expierience. These require higher flow and better lighting and finals SPS - small polyped stony, these are moore often than not very difficult to look after because they require perfect tank chemistry, intense lighitng, intense flow and about 100 other things aswell. These arnt really for beginers.

Now with live sand basically what you are buying is sand with micro invertibrates in. Google things like Copepods, Isopods, amphipods and bristleworms. Youll get the same things on your live rock though so personally i dont see the point in buying 'live' sand because if you add plain aragonits sand it will become 'live' over time and is a fraction of the price. Have a look at this site http/www.xtalworld.com/Aquarium/hitchfaq.htm it will give you a general idea of what sort of things live in live rock.

Fair bit of info there but if you want to go saltwater you defiantely have to reaserch alot, whether it be from books, the internet or just reading the topics (what i did) on this site. Also Have a look at the pinned topics in marine topics and in the nano reef section.

 

[Musho3210]

Sorry that I'm about to come across like a complete A******* but given your attitude towards fish keeping [topic="207865"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=207865[/topic] PLEASE dont start a marine tank!

Marine animals are a LOT more sensitive and require a lot more time investiment then tropical fish. You have already proven you dont do not care about the welfare of the animals you keep. Its bad enough when you kill fish but if you start to kill corals as well that is just criminal imo.

If you are serious about setting up a marine tank then be prepeared to spend at least 6 months researching it before you buy anything. Then once the tank is set up be prepeared to have to wait at least 2 months before you can add the first fish and at least a year before you can add the first corals.

Although kind of harsh, i have to agree, maybe not as far as 2 months until first fish but if you couldnt even wait for your cycle to finish in your freshwater, then you wont go far in marine aquariums. 6 months is a great amount of time to research. I did 7 months and when i started the hobby i was confident, and if anything minor went wrong i was able to fix it without many problems. Do 6 months of research, and maybe join a yoga class and learn patience.

As for the original question its all been answered, why repeat everything.

 

[orange shark]

im not looking to set it up straight away, this is just part of my research.

Can you have the same fish if you have coral and liverock or just liverock?

 

[SkiFletch]

Some fish are coral nippers/eaters, so you do have to be moderately careful with your fish choices if you want to start out with LR only and may want to venture into corals in the future

 

[orange shark]

that sounds like a good suggestion!

I take it you have to cycle your tank before you put live rock in?

orange shark

 

[WayneVT08]

that sounds like a good suggestion!

I take it you have to cycle your tank before you put live rock in?

orange shark

No, you put the live rock in and then you let it cycle itself. if you cycle then put your LR in, it will cause an ammonia spike.