Could My Blue Acara Have Fish Tb?

[max11180]

Hi, i've had 4 Blue Acara for almost a year, they turned out to be 3 female, and 1 male, and a pair bred approx 8 times in the last few months. All 4 have been fine, healthy, and happy.. until the last week or so. The Male (fred) has lost a fair amount of weight, and his body shape seems to have become deformed, (although it was fine beforehand), his anal fin seem a little tatty, and his gills seem to be held open a lot. My first guess was a parasitic infection (mostly due to the gills), so i treated the tank with waterlife - sterazin. As yet there is no sign of him becoming any better, and in heinsight, none of the other fish displayed anything remotely similar to his syptoms His eating and behaviour seem perfectly normal.

I've posted some pics taken a few mins ago, along with some of him taken around june.. quite obvious to see he isnt doing to well... (pics ar'n't too great sorry)

If anyone can confirm my fears, or has any better idea on diagnosis, or advice.. please help!!
Max

 

[Synirr]

Definitely looks like it could be TB, I'm afraid
I had success treating a betta with TB with some antibiotic food, so that would probably be your best bet. Even if it turns out not to be TB a round of antibiotics won't hurt anything. Good luck with him!

 

[max11180]

Can you remember which brand of fish food it was? or any other information from it? can't seem to find any for sale over the www here (UK) probably an EU thing
Looks like i'll have to buy from the states.. hope it gets here in time

 

[Seb R]

You gotta be real quick, my female Ram got it, before I could act properly (2days) she died.

Definatly go for anything that wills top it.

Goiod luck

 

[max11180]

I have 2 30 litre tanks in the shed i use for various fry.. but i shuffled all the tiger barb fry into one (not the easiest task i've undertaken ), instead of both.. and put Fred in the other. He's rather miffed at being isolated from his buddies tho lol, doing that cichlid sulking thing(hides in a corner and plays dead when he knows im watchin, swims, eats and explores perfectly fine when he thinks im not watching).
Anyways, with changing the tank, i changed the med from sterazin, to Paragon (making sure i mixed none of the water!!). He does seem to be holding out better with paragon, maybe a little stressed, but that could the change of tank, the new med, or a bit of both. The Vets coming to visit in the next day or too, so hopefully.. they can cure him. don't think i'll be watching if it involves a eurthomycin injection tho sounds a bit nasty!

 

[Synirr]

The medicated food I was using is made by Jungle and looks like this:
http/www.petdiscounters.com/files/images/d_5312.jpg

I hope your little guy pulls through for you!

 

[Lynden]

"DANGER

Tuberculosis is one of the worst diseases known to humankind.
Many physicians believe that it could VERY EASILY cross
the species barrier and infect humans. The strain infecting fish is
very similar to the one infecting humans and great apes. In the aquarium,
this infection spreads very easily. Use EXTREME CATION when near any animal with TB and use rubber gloves to handle it. The fish should be euthanized IMMEDIATLY. If it is left in the main tank, it could easily infect the other fish, if they ate it, for instance. Unless the fish is very important, in my opinion it is NOT WORTH RISKING YOUR HEALTH, OR THE HEALTH OF YOUR FAMILY, to attempt and treat a TB infected fish. At this point, it is not known how to treat fish Tuberculosis, it is believed to have caused by poor filtration, or an overstocked tank."


I read that in a book awhile ago. Just thought Id post that in here, I don't know if its still relevant.


-Lynden

 

[max11180]

just to update.. Fred is still in the 30L in the shed, but he is looking a lot better! the waterlife Paragon seems to be helping a lot.. his tail deformation seems to have straightened out.. and his scales and fins are looking a lot tidier. Im going to leave him in there for a while longer to fatten up a bit, he still looks kinda skinny. He keeps trying to get to the tank next to him to get to the tiger barb fry, so he much be getting more lively!!

Might try to get some pics later, to compare.

 

[Synirr]

Humans can indeed contract fish TB through open cuts that come in contact with the tank water, but it's very unlikely and fish TB is quite different from human TB, so it's not nearly so dangerous as that book made it sound. Symptoms of fish TB in humans are usually minor and restricted to the skin and soft tissues -- lesions around the area of infection, for example.
The theory about it being caused by poor filtration or overstocking is complete hogwash. It's a bacterial disease, and while overstocking and poor filtration will make it more likely to spread, infection has to be present in the tank to begin with for it to manifest itself; it doesn't just appear out of thin air. If the tap water isn't treated well enough in your area, however, it's possible for the bacteria to be present in the water. TB isn't very contagious even among fishes, so human infection is extremely unlikely... I think I read somewhere, though I can't find the link anymore, that there is less than one reported case of infection in humans every year.

It's great to hear he's doing better, max! A good example of why there's no need to euthanize a fish just because it has TB; there's hope

Here are a couple of links about fish TB, just for future reference:
http/www.4qd.org/Aqua/disease/tb.html#danger

http/www.suite101.com/article.cfm/aquariums/1770

 

[max11180]

I've been wondering myself how the infection got there? The chances of it being in the fresh water do seem possible. Our tap water here (the lakes, uk) is basically pure. Every test kit i have used, i can't detect anything other than a SLIGHT trace of chlorine (to be precise, ph= 6.6, Ammonia = 0ppm, ammonium = 0ppm, nitrite = 0ppm, nitrate = 0ppm, KH = <5ppm (CaCO3), GH <10ppm (CaCO3), phosphate = 0ppm). However, with our water being that way, it makes sense they treat it less (because there is no real need to), so bacteria might slip through quite easily. But i thought this unlikely, as it is only one fish that is affected, or at least, seems to be only one fish.
I can't imagine it being the shop i got them from either.. i've never had any problems with fish from there, nor have i heard of anyone else having any.. in fact it's one of the PFK magazines top 10 shops in the UK.
The only other option, which i think could be the culprit.. is frozen fish. I bought a pack from one of the "pet chain stores" (im guessing im not allowed to say the name so i won't bother), just to try my Oscar on some different foods. Anyways, nothing was particularly interested in them, and I had to scoop them out a few hours later. Could be that Fred being the alpha acara had a nibble to see what was what, and picked this up for his trouble.

Incidentally, i doubt overcrowding is the issue. I have a 6'x2'x2' tank (running 2 fluval 404 external filters), which is occupied by 1 Oscar (8"), 1 common pleco (9"), 1 syno. robbianus (6-7") 3 Bala shark (4-5"), 3 adult Acara (2.5-3.5")(was 4, but Fred is in the shed)) 2 "teenage" Acara (1.5-2"), 6 Corydoras (1.5-2")
There is also AROUND 8 juvenile acara, that i can't catch! Obviously i might have an issue or 2 when everything is full size, especially with waste from a big "O" and the pleco. but nothing a bit more maintenace shouldn't cure B)

 

[Synirr]

How long have you had the acara? Good shop or not, it's possible he came with the infection from the supplier. In bettas at least, they can have TB for weeks or even months without showing any noticeable symptoms, so it's difficult for a shop to catch and treat it early. Other than that, I agree that the frozen food could possibly have been the culprit. What brand was it? Hikari brand frozen foods are guaranteed to be thoroughly sterilized, so that might be a good bet for the future.

 

[max11180]

The Acara are nearly 6 months in my tank, so i think the shop is innocent enough. As for the food.. i can't find any kind of brand marking on it Its a simple clear plastic tubish thing (quite like a cooked wafer ham packet), with a foil sheet pressed into the edges of the tub. the only markings on it are a best before date (05/07), and a lot number (9001).
There going to find themselves disposed of, preferably without our neighbours cat digging them out of the garbage Think i'll stick with prawns and crabsticks in the future!

Incidentaly, Fred is still in the isolation tank, he's not looking tip top as yet, but he certainly looks better, just underweight still. It's almost as if he's sulking, and having a food strike (he does eat, just not when im watching).
His spawning partner, Wilma, is also being sulky, and has taken to hiding in one the caves. I was thinking of putting her in the tank with him, to see if it will perk them both up a bit.. it's only a 6.5 gal (uk gal) tank, and there about 3.5" each. Could be a big maintenance headache.. especially with only running a sponge filter
I really don't want to move Fred back into the 6ft, until he looks healthy, and ready to look after himself. The TB (or whatever bacterial icky sticky it was..) might relapse, or he might contract something else if he's not tip top, and gets stressed by something (like the Oscar being grumpy after the weekly clean up, lol).

What would the rest of you readers do? Risk putting a weak fish in the busy community 6ft, or put the weak one's mate with him, in a small tank, with an inadequate filter...

 

[Lynden]

Geez, you just love to prove me wrong, don't you, Synirr?
(Im glad it was the book this time! )

Any disease among fishes will be worsened by overcrowding and underfiltration. In humans, the disease is extremely contagious. Any person with it will be quarantined. The reason for it having so little cases per year is because it has been virtually eradicated in many parts of the world, thanks to a radical vaccination/cure. However, the strain in humans is very, very old, dating back to caveman days. It is one of the first diseases to be found, on primitive humans. The problem is that with all this time passed, the bacterial strain will soon mutate into one that is not effected by our vaccine. Therefore, it would be a good idea to avoid getting it, in case the disease has mutated by then.

A good thing to try would be to place his beloved in a tank beside his and see what happens. If a fish is put in to a tank with a weak fish, there is a good chance the weak bugger will be attacked. Also, I would not risk it becoming contagious. My old friend (now a pot head that I hate) once brought a JD back to health in a 1/2 gallon tank with a simple aeration device. He simply maintained it like a sick fish, and it got better.

The way you are going it looks like your fish will be better soon too. Good luck

 

[scrappy]

Going totally off the TB subject now but its also possible that interbreeding could be the culprit, if the fish were bought together from the same store and you bought them at a young age (as in all the fish seemed like the same size) then they could well have been from the same breeding batch, a lot of farmed fish & locally bred fish are interbred as such and as they get older they can become deformed and lose weight. A lot of fish are much weaker because they are farmed and easily pick up diseases as they grow older.

Im not saying this is the cause but its another possibility.

Because of this ive never bought "breeding pairs" from the same place.

 

[max11180]

Thats definately possible.. i bought them simply, as a pair of juveniles (not knowing sexes, and being to small to tell), so theres a 90% chance they are effectively, brother and sister. Either way, its pretty nasty stuff for sure!