Corydoras Species "groups"

[Coryman]

Hi Folks,

I think it has reached the time when I need to clarify a few things regarding the so called Cory groups.

However, firstly just to straighten out one or two things. Copyright is something that the majority of people using the internet totally ignore, whether through pure ignorance or plain bloodymindedness. Frank knows I have had several articles ripped of from my site and was looking after my back in this instance. The fact is that every written word or picture taken is covered by international copyright law. Enforcing it is a totally different matter.

The other thing I want to make very clear is I do not expect everyCory enthusiast to be a member of Corydorasworld and by the same token I do not think that every Cory enthusiast has the right to expect all Cory information on CW should be free and there have been a couple that have actually demanded that it be so, and to be perfectly honest there have been just two, these I gave the titles of a couple of good Cory books that I know of.

OK the Cory groups.

Nijssen & Isbrücker in 1967 formulated Cory groups based on distribution, but it was not long before they realised that a system of grouping by geographical location was unworkable and was therefore disregarded.

The five groups were acutus, aeneus, barbatus, elegans and punctatus. As I already stated these were based on location and nothing else. The terms I use, 'aeneus group' and 'elegans group' are based on body shape and form alone in the 'elegans group' and colour and body shape in the 'aeneus group'. In the latter it is the similarity in colour pattern which causes the most confusion and the reason that are all called C. aeneus, however these group of fish are widely distributed throughout the South American continent and a number of them are considered by many (me included) to be distinct species in their own right.

It is relatively easy to determine species that would fall into the so called 'elegans' group just by their body shape alone, there are 11 species, 6 C-number species and 5 CW-number species, (22). All of these has a very similar mirrored, dorsal and ventral profile shape.

The 'elegans group' may very well be the next group of Corys to have the genus name changed, but that's not something that I have any control over, that's a scientists job.

Ian

 

[stiffler69]

I find it strange that you would post infomation on the internet then complain when its used elsewhere, their is a real world beyond the internet why not find it its really not bad at all.

Get real grow up and stop bitching when people pull something from your site as long as they are not claiming it to be their words then it is not a copyright issue.

 

[jollysue]

I wish we would not go down this road. Debates about copyright law and internet freedom belong someplace else, I think. Kuhni and I asked Ian to help us out, and he is trying to. The other matter is more involved and personal to Ian. I didn't see a complaint from Ian, actually.

I am going to have enough trouble figuring out the groupings or contributing to it intellectually.

It is apparantly an open area of investigation and nothing is set in scientific stone.

Let's stay on topic for Kuhni's and my blood pressure's sake--and our friends the Cory's.

I have learned new things already.

 

[Cory_Dad]

Oh boy...

I was trying to hold off on opening my mouth but that's just not my nature; I wonder if JollySue and I are related ?

Copyright, DRM, Trade Mark, Trade Secret, Patent are all a huge areas BUT the Copyright is actually the simplest of them all.

What Ian has chosen to do, which is his absolute and legal right, is to furnish us with information both via his web site and via his posts.

Now his web site has 'Copyright' notices which basically means that you can look but you cannot copy what you see in any form or fashion. That is his inalienable right! He came up with the information and he is providing to us non-members and members FREE OF CHARGE to read. Members (of which I am proud to say I am one) can see a lot more but again, I can see but I cannot copy anything and any way, shape or form (linking to it I am not sure about).

People who think that all of the Internet is free are sadly mis-informed. True, the right to have access to the Internet should be their inalienable right (after paying their ISP for the band width) but that does not give them the right to copy/download/whatever anything and everything that is on the Internet.

Just like the author who displays in a bookshop window a page from his/her book has the Copyright to the contents of the page, so too would the author have the same rights if that page were displayed on the Internet. There is no difference in the eyes of the copyright law except that it is easier to 'pirate' the Internet page.

Is this fair? Well, fair or not, the copyright holder has exerted effort into producing the works and also to place them onto the Internet for people to view. Is it fair to the author that people copy his works gratis for whatever reason? "Fair' does not come into this. Is it 'fair' that most of the world's children go to bed hungry at night while we sit here on our computers in our homes discussing keeping fish as a hobby? I think not. So forget 'fair'.

Ian is not being draconian in this; his 'open' post on this thread should convince all of you on this. But to expect him to open all of his hard earned work is just ludicrous. People work hard for their money and don't expect to have other people just take it (ok, the Government is an exception, crooks....) neither should Ian have his work taken from him.

Now, having said all of this, there IS a movement afoot in the software industry that claims (for a class of software) the opposite. One version is the GPL. THAT IS THEIR RIGHT as well as anyone who subscribes to this license. I myself have released software under this license BUT THAT WAS MY CONSCIOUS DECISION. I have also released information under a Copyleft license but then again, that was my decision.

People, it's all about respecting others.

For God's/god's/Allah's/Budah's/whatever's sake please let's respect each other .

Thank you.

(Why oh why did I hit the 'Add Reply' button?).

 

[Coryman]

I find it strange that you would post infomation on the internet then complain when its used elsewhere, their is a real world beyond the internet why not find it its really not bad at all.

Get real grow up and stop bitching when people pull something from your site as long as they are not claiming it to be their words then it is not a copyright issue.

Sorry everyone, but this has to be said and it may very well be my last post here. I am generally very forthcoming with information and advise when it comes to Corys or any fish for that matter. I do however take exception to those that expect it or even demand it.

Stiffler69.

If you read the posts without your blinkers on you may find that I did not ***** about anything. I merely stated a couple of facts. The reason my articles section, which I may say started of in the public domain, was put into the members only section of the site was because of a unscrupulous person in the aquatic trade. This person deemed if fair to copy and paste all 14 of them into his own site in an attempt to gain credibility from them.

Now if you think that is fair play so be it. You will have strengthened the case for restricting my knowledge to those that are interested enough to be a part of the Corydoras world fraternity, buy my books or the magazines with my articles in. This is yet another reason not to take part in open forums where people like yourself deem it their god given rights to everything on the internet for free. I think you are the one that needs to get real. And I don't need to hide behind a alias to stand my corner, nor am I afraid to say where I live.

Ian Fuller

 

[Gazo]

As an outsider to this, but as someone who is becoming fascinated with the world of Corydoras, and has knowledge of the extensive research Ian has done on the species, I can safely say that I'm not the only one that would stand in your corner Ian, I think even my limited time on here has allowed me to understand the problems you've had in the past and can sympathise greatly when things such as this arise yet again.

I will be a member of that fine website soon

 

[jollysue]

I have discovered that Ian is a generous man who loves Corys and wants to do right by them and others who care for them. I for one would hate to lose his generous intellectual support. I know there are many who learn from him every time he takes some of his valuable time to share some of his experience and study with us.

He has many irons in the fire of his own. It is really quite embarassing to have asked him come to and help out, only to have him called names as his reward. While we have him why not tap his knowledge with some questions. Ian speaks and people listen all over the world. Let's value him as a resource and fellow Cory lover and respect his privacy.

 

[ulster exile]

Here, here! ^Well said imo.

 

[Siamese Fighting]

See I think this is all very very sad.

I don't want to get into specifics about the legal right to source information and reference according to national standards. I just think there is a lot of sucking noises coming from this thread, and it really lowers the maturity of this forum.

No offence to Ian but I am not interested in what one person has to say, I am interested in what everyone has to say. Hence the "forum". So I see it as no loss that whatever information on here has been removed.

 

[jollysue]

You are not the first person to characterize me that way.

But you would be incorrect in your projections on me and assumptions about me.

So why don't we get on with the Cory lovin'? so that we can get everyone's Cory experience--including Ian's.

 

[Cory_Dad]

No offence to Ian but I am not interested in what one person has to say, I am interested in what everyone has to say. Hence the "forum". So I see it as no loss that whatever information on here has been removed.

In the Soviet Union all men were equal, but some were more equal than others.

As far as it affects me, if Ian no longer posts on this forum, it doesn't affect me. I have paid my money and subscribed to Corydorasworld.com so I can still gain from is superior knowledge.

From your statement Siamese Fighting, I gather that you are content with getting 100 mediocre answers to your question rather that get one superb and accurate answer.

I am NOT trying to start a 'flame war' here. I just want to put things into perspective. It comes from living with a Libra these last 34 years.

I detect that this whole thing is creating a rift within this forum. Pity. It was going so well.

 

[Coryologist]

From your statement Siamese Fighting, I gather that you are content with getting 100 mediocre answers to your question rather that get one superb and accurate answer.

Wow. Someone finally hit the nail smack dab on the head. A more perfect response to pure drivel could not have been made. Well done, Cory_Dad. My hat is off to you. - Frank

 

[Tolak]

I detect that this whole thing is creating a rift within this forum. Pity. It was going so well.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?act=boardrules

"No promoting of other competing sites either in the forum, chat room or private message system. In the event of recieving such spam messages, please report the incedent to a member of the moderating team."

I have no problem with promoting information, as long as promoting of a competing site is not involved.

Coryologist and Coryman are well known to many in the studies of the various species of corys. This is a fish forum, and this is the cory section. As long as this discussion remains related to fish in general I see no problem with it.

It is common practice to give credit when utilizing another person's work, as well as asking permission for the use of copyrighted material, no matter what the origin. If anyone objects to having their personal copyrighted material used on this site please contact a member of the moderating team.

Please, back to the subject of this topic.

 

[Siamese Fighting]

No offence to Ian but I am not interested in what one person has to say, I am interested in what everyone has to say. Hence the "forum". So I see it as no loss that whatever information on here has been removed.

In the Soviet Union all men were equal, but some were more equal than others.

As far as it affects me, if Ian no longer posts on this forum, it doesn't affect me. I have paid my money and subscribed to Corydorasworld.com so I can still gain from is superior knowledge.

From your statement Siamese Fighting, I gather that you are content with getting 100 mediocre answers to your question rather that get one superb and accurate answer.

I am NOT trying to start a 'flame war' here. I just want to put things into perspective. It comes from living with a Libra these last 34 years.

I detect that this whole thing is creating a rift within this forum. Pity. It was going so well.

Maybe if I called myself Ian you would be my fan boy.

Why on earth have you joined a forum if you do not wish to hear the views from other people? As you stated, why seek 100 mediocre views, when you can go and pray to your beloved?

Sickening. Pure and simple. As Tolak has mentioned, you are quite simply advertising another website.

 

[Tolak]

Promoting a competing site would be more along the lines of "Check out my new site for general fish knowledge at http/www.igotsfishies.com "

Promoting information would be more along the lines of "I've dealt with lip fibromas on a couple of occasions, they will grow to the point of the fish being unable to eat. You can surgically remove them if careful, and provide extremely clean water conditions during the healing process. This is something common to angels, and surgical removal by the hobbyist is not that uncommon; http/www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php?...y;threadid=8004 "

Now, the topic was?