Corydoras Losing Barbels

[noobgamers]

Hello i have three julli corydoras and three stebias corydoras in a fifteen gallon and some of the jullis are losing there barbs i have no jqgged rocks availible my substrate is silver sand my ammonia nd nitrates are zero ans my nitrate is fifteen i feed them aquarian advance nutrition pellet once daily the other fish in the tank are ten neontetra one dwarf gourami and a bn pleco neverhad any history of dieseases tanks been running for three months got them about two months ago ph is about seven and temp is twenty five hope this help any advice given will be welcome ps only the jullis have it the stebais are fine

 

[Lillefishy]

Silver sand is not recommended for corys as it's quite sharp,hence their barbel loss.
You'll have to look out for any secondary infection, keep the water pristine & the substrate very clean, if you can change the sand I'd do it asap

 

[blueboy1]

Often happens, like lillefishy said, when substrate is too sharp or dirty.

 

[KieranBoyne]

Amen to the 1st answer. You'll probably need a new substrate

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Substrate is not the issue. Nitrate and lack of vacuuming the bottom more likely are. The nitrate kit is not the most accurate.
 
Please watch this vid titled "Corydoras- soft barbels on sharp gravel" http/en.aquanet.tv/Video/225-soft-barbels-on-sharp-gravel-surprise-corydoras-live-on-various-substrates

 

[snazy]

Two months is quite a quick time for the corys to lose their barbels.
What I gather is that the tank is 3 months old and you've had the corys for 2. Well, I think your corys went through a cycle or mini cycles. Typical signs of chronic ammonia issues with corys is loss of fins or barbels or both.
A "new" tank as old as 3 months is still very much unestablished and although your tests show 0s, these type of tanks aren't stable. One day ammonia can be 1ppm, the next day 0 and you'll never know it. It takes months for a tank to be safe for sensitive fish. Corys aren't sensitive enough to die but they may show signs of bad water conditions such as losing barbels. There probably were ammonia/nitrite spikes that went away subsequently but not fast enough not to affect the fish.

Sharp substrate can be an issue with corys. I had a problem with a JBL type of sand of volcanic origin but I didn't have any problems since I moved them to a very coarse normal sand substrate which is sharp too.

There is no way vacuuming to be the cause. I've got 4-5 years old corys that have lived for the last 3 years in a never vacuumed tank. However the bottom is visually clean because I have heavy filtration and I do 50% water changes weekly. In fact I stopped vacuuming all my tanks for a long time without any adverse effect to any fish or bottom feeders. I've got loaches too.

Is the Ph of 7 constant in the tank or does it fluctuate?

How often do you do water changes? Do you wash the filter sponges and how often?

Do the corys exhibit any other signs of possible bacterial infection besides the barbels? Is their mouth area still intact?

What type of filter do you have in the tank?

 

[daizeUK]

A "new" tank as old as 3 months is still very much unestablished and although your tests show 0s, these type of tanks aren't stable. One day ammonia can be 1ppm, the next day 0 and you'll never know it. It takes months for a tank to be safe for sensitive fish.

 
Hey Snazy, long time no see  
I'm interested in this, do you have a source for your info?

 

[snazy]

A "new" tank as old as 3 months is still very much unestablished and although your tests show 0s, these type of tanks aren't stable. One day ammonia can be 1ppm, the next day 0 and you'll never know it. It takes months for a tank to be safe for sensitive fish.

 
Hey Snazy, long time no see

 
I'm interested in this, do you have a source for your info?

Experience is my source. Go buy yourself a couple of ottos. Put one in a 1 month cycled tank and one in a 6 months cycled tank. More than likely the one in the 1 month cycled tank won't live even a couple of weeks. Not because of starvation. It takes longer for them to die of starvation. Or you can try with shrimp.

On another hand washing the filter sponges too often in a 1-3 month old tank, even in tank water can cause your filter bacteria to be disturbed regularly and not functioning as fast and even causing spikesafter doing so. I've caused a few fish deaths and several spikes by being overly attentive to my filters at the start.

Mind you that this doesn't apply to well established filters. I wash the filter sponges of my old tanks under the tap with no issues whatsoever but I don't touch the media in new tanks for months.

And also, if you've done fishless cycles you may have noticed that the same filter bacteria once get going can process 1ppm ammonia for example in 2 hours one day and then 12 hours the next time. We normally put fish once the amount is processed in 12 or 24 hours every day but that doesn't mean that the shorter time frame during which the ammonia/nitrite get processed doesn't vary from day to day. Even if for 2 hours a day your fish are subjected to certain levels, the most sensitive won't take it well.

 

[noobgamers]

Two months is quite a quick time for the corys to lose their barbels.
What I gather is that the tank is 3 months old and you've had the corys for 2. Well, I think your corys went through a cycle or mini cycles. Typical signs of chronic ammonia issues with corys is loss of fins or barbels or both.
A "new" tank as old as 3 months is still very much unestablished and although your tests show 0s, these type of tanks aren't stable. One day ammonia can be 1ppm, the next day 0 and you'll never know it. It takes months for a tank to be safe for sensitive fish. Corys aren't sensitive enough to die but they may show signs of bad water conditions such as losing barbels. There probably were ammonia/nitrite spikes that went away subsequently but not fast enough not to affect the fish.

Sharp substrate can be an issue with corys. I had a problem with a JBL type of sand of volcanic origin but I didn't have any problems since I moved them to a very coarse normal sand substrate which is sharp too.

There is no way vacuuming to be the cause. I've got 4-5 years old corys that have lived for the last 3 years in a never vacuumed tank. However the bottom is visually clean because I have heavy filtration and I do 50% water changes weekly. In fact I stopped vacuuming all my tanks for a long time without any adverse effect to any fish or bottom feeders. I've got loaches too.

Is the Ph of 7 constant in the tank or does it fluctuate?

How often do you do water changes? Do you wash the filter sponges and how often?

Do the corys exhibit any other signs of possible bacterial infection besides the barbels? Is their mouth area still intact?

What type of filter do you have in the tank?

sure srry made a mistake the sand is actually silica i do 10 percent water changes every weeke and 25 percent water changes at the end of every month i clean the filter sponge at the end of every month i dont exactrly know the name of the filter but it is the one that  comes with the juwel korall 60 the tankitself also the filter was out of another juwel korall i had and has been running for around 2 and a half years and this old tank had an even higher stocking density than this one

 

[snazy]

I have the same size tank and actually used it to grow baby corys. I didn't use the filter it comes with though, but ended up using two other filters because one filter could not handle the growing bioload. I had a ph crash and a one day nitrite spike that I noticed(the only one I noticed but sure it was an on/off constant issue because it had consequences) A few lost their barbels and that's how I noticed something is wrong. It was a cycled tank to start with. I ended up installing a 2nd filter after sorting the ph crash.

The filter itself doesn't hold all bacteria. Your filter you say comes from a tank that had bigger density. But you forget that the substrate too holds bacteria and other surfaces. By moving just the filter you may not have moved all the filter bacteria, hence it's still a new tank and non-established until it grows enough bacteria to support the current population, if the filter can ever manage it. I presume you put brand new substrate.

And I presume you put 6 corys at once inside this small tank. It's like a 150% bio overload for this tank.

What other fish are in this tank? 6 corys is enough load for this size tank on permanent basis. Some would say it's too small to which I agree as I don't keep adults in mine. It's 54 litres actually, after putting the substrate it's probably less than 50litres, e.i. 13G tank in reality.
I'd avise get yourself a bigger filter or a 2nd filter. Do 50% water changes weekly or at least 30-40%. 10% is not worth bothering with weekly.
I forgot to mention, the corys may never grow their barbels again unfortunately but they can live without them as long as the tank is functioning properly and has been maintained.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

[One has to wonder] why the juliis all lost their barbels but the sterbais did not. One explanation is that the juliis came with some barbel damage which was not significant to be observed but which did open them to secondary infection which is usually what does the real damage. If the substrate has not been cleaned, this can be a source of infection. And if there was actually ammonia in the tank as was suggested, I wonder why it only affected 3 corys and nothing else?
 
What about

the other fish in the tank are ten neon tetra one dwarf gourami and a bn pleco

 
Are all these fish and 3 sterbais not affected by the amount of ammonia it would take to erode cory barbels? To my knowledge none of these fish are considered to be ammonia hardy. So my thinking here is not that ammonia can't contribute to barbel erosion, but rather in this case there is no evidence that it was the cause. The most common time when ammonia is a damaging issue to corys is during transport when ammonia can build up in bags. And I am referring to the initial stages of transport from the wild or a fish farm to the store. The one thing of which I am certain is cycled tanks do not alternate between O ammonia one day and 1 ppm the next and then back to 0 again.
 
 
...
 

As with all corys, don’t use undergravel filtration and ensure the substrate is kept scrupulously clean. These cats are sensitive to poorly-maintained or dirty substrates and can lose their barbels if kept in poor conditions.
 

from http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-panda/
 
And check out what they say about other cory species. It is similar.
 
But the OP also wrote;

i do 10 percent water changes every weeke and 25 percent water changes at the end of every month i clean the filter sponge at the end of every month

 
No mention of vacuuming, nor is the water change regimen exactly the best. It sure looks to me like a dirty substrate issue as I originally posted.
 
I will end with a quote from one of the UK's most respected cory experts taken from PlanetCatfish

The problem we have in our aquariums when we use larger particle substrate is that food penetrates deep into the substrate and the Corys then have to actually move it around with their barbels, this is unnatural for them and can cause unnecessary ware and irritation to these delicate organs, which in turn can and does cause inflammation and then infection and we have all seen the resulting shortening and even total loss of barbels.

There is also secondary problems with using larger un-siftable substrate is that unreachable food will breakdown and rot causing pockets of anaerobic gasses to build up, which are highly poisonous to any fish that happens to ingest it. Many people will undoubtedly state that they have no problems using larger particle substrates for their Corys, which may very well be true and in the past I have done so myself, however it is not natural for them and it is easy to see what they prefer when you watch them sifting through fins sand.

from http/www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24266&p=143348&hilit=barbel+loss#p143348

 

[Chad]

Please keep in mind that this is the "new to the hobby" forum and not the scientific section. 
Generally speaking what those new to the hobby need are the basics. 
Debate, while dynamic and fun for those who have been around the hobby for a while, tends to make things more difficult for new comers and can discourage them. 

 

[DrRob]

Right. This is starting to wander off topic and it needs to go back on. I appreciate that you're both trying to help, but if both of you want to spend time debating the issue then there's a scientific section to do it in and neither of your are obliged to do it. Personally I value the expertise of both of you and think you've both got things to add. So no more here please, lets keep this to options for the OP to explore on how best to look after his cories.
 
As for the barbels. Substrate always comes first to mind with cories and barbels, either sharp or dirty. If that's ruled out then tank conditions would come second. I can provide no insight onto whether some groups are more sensitive than others to ammonia poisoning, but for all I know they could be very different sizes and therefore ages which could make one or the other more sensitive/resistant.

 

[rms]

<passes popcorn> 
 
I think tcamos and DrRob have hit the nail just about as accurately as they could. I've certainly taken some valuable info from both arguments. Hope the OP has too...

 

[eaglesaquarium]

This thread has gone far afield from the original question...
 
The back and forth has been moved to the scientific section and the link posted here for the inquisitive.
 
 
In the meantime, I'll mention something to the OP:  Posting a question on the internet will get you a varied response.  Ultimately, it is your responsibility to weigh all sides of the argument and determine the course of action to take for your particular case.  You know the details of your tank better than anyone else.
 
 
I would add that a 15 gallon tank is really too small for the cories you have or the BN pleco.   You are showing no ammonia or nitrite, but plecos are notoriously dirty little critters and create a great deal of poo. It is extremely important to gravel vac that poo... Loss of barbels are generally related to bacterial infections.  The barbels are used to root around in the substrate and irritations to that in the presence of filth gives the bacterial infection a chance to get a foothold.  (Consider your own anatomy... if you get a cut, and then root it around in a dirty area, you are more likely to get an infection than if you get a cut and are able to keep it clean.)   Silica sand is just fine as a substrate for cories and actually quite a good choice. 
 
I'd ask that all future responses be kept civil and directed to helping the OP not to arguing amongst yourselves.