Coronavirus...post your thoughts here...

[Huscarl86]

Let's all get a vaccine aswell as a facemask. Even the Placebo version is enough to kill a man!

 

[threecharacters]

Here is one that took me half the time to find just by using a search strain to the effect of "face masks do not work"

Masks Don’t Work: A Review of Science Relevant to COVID-19 Social Policy

There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol...

www.rcreader.com

"There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles."

You are all welcome.

You didn't even read the abstracts of those papers that the article mentioned did you...

The 2016, 2019, and 2020 papers don't even test the effectiveness of masks. They just compared N95 respirators to surgical masks. They found no difference, that is, both masks were equally effective at preventing from influenza (a totally different virus, but that is beside the point). I would like to take a moment to mention that respirators are not appropriate for this pandemic, they only protect the wearer. Respirators allow the wearer to breath easily (with a 1-way vent), this means the wearer will absolutely be able to infect others. My university has explicitly stated that respirators are not appropriate PPE.

The 2017 paper actually DOES find that masks work. Pulled directly from the abstract -- "Meta-analysis of observational studies provided evidence of a protective effect of masks (OR = 0.13; 95% CI: 0.03–0.62) and respirators (OR = 0.12; 95% CI: 0.06–0.26) against severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)." Masks help protect against SARS the cousin of COV-SARS-2 (the virus responsible for COVID).

The 2012 paper also says that masks work, at least for SARS. Again pulled from the abstract -- "Eight of nine retrospective observational studies found that mask and ⁄ or respirator use was independently associated with a reduced risk of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)." It does say that it might not work for influenza, a totally different virus. At this point I would like to note that these older papers are less and less reliable. This field moves fast and the most recent papers are the most accurate as they build on years of prior research.

The 2010 paper found that masks work at stopping transmission (i.e. someone sick who is wearing a mask is less likely to transmit the virus if wearing a mask), but they said it wasn't conclusive that they protect from respiratory infection. This is related to the fact that the virus can enter the body other ways than the mouth (e.g. eyes). This is true in general, masks are best at keeping you from infecting others and only moderately good at protecting you from infection. This paper is quite old, and it specifically mentions that more studies are needed.

The 2009 paper is an extremely small study. It only followed 32 health care workers for 77 days. They only recorded 2 colds in that entire time. The data set is so small that it can hardly be considered statistically significant. Again, this is the oldest, least-good paper.

I challenge you to find a recent paper (published last 2-3 years) with high quality evidence that masks don't work for both prevention and transmission of viral respiratory infection.

Finally, that article is a disgusting display of journalism. I feel, but cannot prove, that the author cherry-picked his sources such that he could paint this erroneous picture. It almost feels like he didn't even read them himself, and if he did, he deliberately mis-quoted them. In addition, the author of the article goes on and on about seasonal variations in respiratory disease which has absolutely nothing to do with whether masks work on not.

Finally, masks aren't a magic bullet, but they do provide some protection, which is better than nothing. What they do quite well is keep sick individuals from infecting others.

 

[Huscarl86]

Finally, masks aren't a magic bullet, but they do provide some protection, which is better than nothing. What they do quite well is keep sick individuals from infecting others.

lol, have you not noticed how much people tend to touch their faces, and fiddle with the masks, spreading more germs with their hands than they ever would if they didn't wear one?

I've seen ridiculous things, people removing them as they step off the bus, or out of a supermarket. They are probably transmitting more disease than ever before. If you are ill, stay at home, those ridiculous face-nappies aren't going to do anything.

 

[snailaquarium]

You didn't even read the abstracts of those papers that the article mentioned did you...

Too busy running my own life my friend, I will reiterate, I have seen countlaess articles on the news i.e tv and over the net showing the argument is 50/50..

 

[snailaquarium]

lol, have you not noticed how much people tend to touch their faces

This is ABSOLUTELY TRUE..

I have seen how people touch their faces LOADS and its astonishing, I mean for many months now we are told it enters via the mouth, nose and eye however women with their make-up touch loads of times (to apply in the morning and to remove at the the end of the day) and men do too. Dirt in your eye, loose eye-lash, snot or dirt up your nose, People touch their faces all the time..

 

[threecharacters]

Too busy running my own life my friend, I will reiterate, I have seen countlaess articles on the news i.e tv and over the net showing the argument is 50/50..

And that's how mis-information spreads. If people won't put in the necessary effort to do the background research on the things they hear, the same incorrect ideas get parroted over and over. Once people have internalized their position they're unlikely to change it even if it becomes obvious that it's wrong.

 

[Huscarl86]

And that's how mis-information spreads. If people won't put in the necessary effort to do the background research on the things they hear, the same incorrect ideas get parroted over and over. Once people have internalized their position they're unlikely to change it even if it becomes obvious that it's wrong.

It sounds like you are describing yourself as much as you are anybody else.

I have the feeling you accept the mainstream view of events and history, and probably believe what you are reading in the newspapers and on the television.

Some of us reject that and do not believe what we are being told.

 

[threecharacters]

It sounds like you are describing yourself as much as you are anybody else.

I have the feeling you accept the mainstream view of events and history, and probably believe what you are reading in the newspapers and on the television.

Some of us reject that and do not believe what we are being told.

I'm describing everyone. It's simply human nature, and it's folly to think anyone is immune to it. The only reasonable thing to do is to try and keep yourself open to other ideas. Of course you can only be so open, and you need some kind of a way to test other ideas. I come a science background, thus I tend to trust other scientists. After all, I have a hard time believing my cohorts are all party to some kind of coordinated misinformation campaign that I'm somehow not in on. In this particular case, it became clear once I read the paper abstracts that masks actually do work, even if they're not perfect. It says a lot about the effectiveness of masks that an article designed to say masks don't work had such a hard time finding academic sources they had to cite a few inapplicable papers and mis-quote the rest.

I don't watch TV or read newspapers, though I have considered getting newspaper subscriptions recently.

 

[Naughts]

I'm glad I'm not on this ethics committee

UK to spend £30m on trials infecting young people to hasten Covid vaccine

London-based hVivo to take part in world’s first coronavirus ‘challenge trials’

www.theguardian.com

 

[madmark285]

You are all welcome.

I used the Nature website, a well respected science journal. Your source was River City Reader, WTF was that? Here is one for you, A (Complete) Debunking of Denis Rancourt’s Argument That “Masks Don’t Work.”

You know, Elvis is still alive living in an aquarium in Kalamazoo, MI. It's true, I got a link....

 

[Fishmanic]

Another 400,000 plus new cases in the world today and over 6000 deaths. And well over 50,00 new cases in the US today and 1000 deaths.

Here in Massachusetts, many restaurants are suffering and many have gone under. Nightclubs are pretty much closed. Everyone out in the public are wearing masks.

On the bright side, there is no shortage of toilet paper

How are things where you are?

 

[snailaquarium]

And that's how mis-information spreads. If people won't put in the necessary effort to do the background research on the things they hear, the same incorrect ideas get parroted over and over. Once people have internalized their position they're unlikely to change it even if it becomes obvious that it's wrong.

I agree...

 

[snailaquarium]

I don't watch TV or read newspapers,

Well I'm sorry to hear that, the only reason people get to stay safe with the pandemic is because we have the fortune of watching announcments on tv and getting a message to everyone at once quickly and easily.

 

[snailaquarium]

I used the Nature website, a well respected science journal. Your source was River City Reader, WTF was that? Here is one for you, A (Complete) Debunking of Denis Rancourt’s Argument That “Masks Don’t Work.”

You know, Elvis is still alive living in an aquarium in Kalamazoo, MI. It's true, I got a link....

Take a peer-reviewed scientific journal instead then:

Do face masks work against the coronavirus and should you wear one?

The advice on widespread face mask use to protect against covid-19 varies wildly, but there is some evidence that they stop sick people spreading the virus

www.newscientist.com

"
Even if everyone followed this advice, it isn’t clear whether widespread use of face masks would have a significant impact on the spread of the virus. The WHO says it is “collaborating with research and development partners to better understand the effectiveness and efficiency of non medical masks”. “There’s just not a lot of evidence for cloth masks in the community,” says MacIntyre.
"


You are welcome!

 

[threecharacters]

Take a peer-reviewed scientific journal instead then:

Do face masks work against the coronavirus and should you wear one?

The advice on widespread face mask use to protect against covid-19 varies wildly, but there is some evidence that they stop sick people spreading the virus

www.newscientist.com

"
Even if everyone followed this advice, it isn’t clear whether widespread use of face masks would have a significant impact on the spread of the virus. The WHO says it is “collaborating with research and development partners to better understand the effectiveness and efficiency of non medical masks”. “There’s just not a lot of evidence for cloth masks in the community,” says MacIntyre.
"


You are welcome!

The new scientist is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal. They're in the business of bridging the gap between science journals and the public, essentially pop sci. That's not a problem and they fill a necessary niche, but their articles don't need to stand up to the same level of rigor as a scientific journal.

It seems like this article does support wearing masks. I mean it's not saying they're the end all be all of COVID protection, but it does seem like they're supporting mask wearing. Both authors suggested in the article that people should wear homemade masks. They do note that homemade masks are worse than medical masks, which makes sense. Raina MacIntyre, the author of the "A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers" cited in the above article is an author on a more recent article (available here https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article). This article suggest cloth masks work. They're not as good as medical masks and they shouldn't be used by healthcare workers, but they should help reduce community spread. It sounds like masks work better if everyone is wearing one, and they work much less well if some people are unmasked.

Note, your quote contains a quote from MacIntyre “There’s just not a lot of evidence for cloth masks in the community,”. Some people will read this as "masks don't work", but what it actually means is it hasn't been studied enough especially in the community. As time goes on, we'll get a better idea of exactly how well it works as we're essentially running a global clinical trial right now. For now, all indications are that wearing a cloth mask is better than not wearing a cloth mask, and that not wearing a mask has a significant effect on others, even ones wearing masks.