i dont think converting the 25g tank is right for me so slowly bit by bit i am converting the 70g like my first step is buying a better filter i am getting a fluval304 is this a good enough filter and in another month i am buyin the light and then the salt until i have what i need then i will convert it
converting to salt
- Thread starter tdins_2
- Start date
Great Lakes
Always do right, not popular...
"Don't let a limited amount of space or money keep you from setting up a saltwater aquarium" 
"Dealers are likely to realize higher profits on larger aquariums, both from the initial setups and from the subsequent stocking of increased numbers of animals in these tanks."
Most advice against nano tanks comes from experienced hobbiests. And the lfs that recommends against it probably doesn't want to see everything the noob buys die.
"Perhaps the most compelling reason why large aquariums are so strongly recommended is that it seems as though a large tank should be inherently more stable than a small one in terms of water chemistry."
This guy can refute this fact all he wants, but it is an absolute truth. And a begginer needs all the stability they can get to offset the mistakes that will invariably occur.
"Common wisdom suggests that detrimental environmental changes will occur more rapidly and with much more severity in small saltwater tanks. The assumption is simple: Because these smaller tanks contain less water, toxic organic wastes, such as ammonia and nitrite, will accumulate at a faster rate. This is true, however, only if the weight of the animals per gallon of water (and per unit filtration efficiency) in a small tank exceeds the ratio found in a larger tank. If the ratio of animal weight (more correctly, biomass) per gallon of tank capacity is identical for both size tanks, then the build-up of toxic substances will occur at the same rates and in the same proportions. That is, 1/10th gram of ammonia in a 10-gallon tank is the same as 1 gram of ammonia in a 100-gallon tank."
Wow, if ammonia only enviromental difficulties to be had, I might agree with this.
"Water temperatures are less stable in a small aquarium. Given two tanks of widely differing capacities, such as a 10-gallon tank and a 100-gallon tank, if the heater in each one should cease to function, the temperature in the small tank would drop much faster than in the large tank. This is perhaps a minor point, because the tank temperature can drop only to the room temperature, and this is not fatal to most organisms unless the temperature remains low for a substantial amount of time."
Temparature is a minor point??? What happens when they realize they need more lighting to support the corals they just got? He doesn't mention OVERheating, which is the more common trouble.
"My own experience with small marine tanks started almost 30 years ago. It was a 15-gallon aquarium that I paid for using money earned from a paper route."
Wonder how that worked out? He doesn't say, does he?
OK. Enough knocking the nanos.
Most of us do not recommend them for begginers because most begginers do not realize what they are getting into to begin with.
Most noobs think they need salt and different gravel, and voila! Some are doing a 15gal, because they "got one for free", or something similar. I usually discourage the determination of startout tank size by using "what I had lying around". Simply because by the time you buy all the additional hardware needed to operate a marine tank successfully, the tank is the cheapest investment.
Nanaos can be done, and look stunning, but should really be attemped after one gains knowledge in the hobby.
GL
"Dealers are likely to realize higher profits on larger aquariums, both from the initial setups and from the subsequent stocking of increased numbers of animals in these tanks."
Most advice against nano tanks comes from experienced hobbiests. And the lfs that recommends against it probably doesn't want to see everything the noob buys die.
"Perhaps the most compelling reason why large aquariums are so strongly recommended is that it seems as though a large tank should be inherently more stable than a small one in terms of water chemistry."
This guy can refute this fact all he wants, but it is an absolute truth. And a begginer needs all the stability they can get to offset the mistakes that will invariably occur.
"Common wisdom suggests that detrimental environmental changes will occur more rapidly and with much more severity in small saltwater tanks. The assumption is simple: Because these smaller tanks contain less water, toxic organic wastes, such as ammonia and nitrite, will accumulate at a faster rate. This is true, however, only if the weight of the animals per gallon of water (and per unit filtration efficiency) in a small tank exceeds the ratio found in a larger tank. If the ratio of animal weight (more correctly, biomass) per gallon of tank capacity is identical for both size tanks, then the build-up of toxic substances will occur at the same rates and in the same proportions. That is, 1/10th gram of ammonia in a 10-gallon tank is the same as 1 gram of ammonia in a 100-gallon tank."
Wow, if ammonia only enviromental difficulties to be had, I might agree with this.
"Water temperatures are less stable in a small aquarium. Given two tanks of widely differing capacities, such as a 10-gallon tank and a 100-gallon tank, if the heater in each one should cease to function, the temperature in the small tank would drop much faster than in the large tank. This is perhaps a minor point, because the tank temperature can drop only to the room temperature, and this is not fatal to most organisms unless the temperature remains low for a substantial amount of time."
Temparature is a minor point??? What happens when they realize they need more lighting to support the corals they just got? He doesn't mention OVERheating, which is the more common trouble.
"My own experience with small marine tanks started almost 30 years ago. It was a 15-gallon aquarium that I paid for using money earned from a paper route."
Wonder how that worked out? He doesn't say, does he?
OK. Enough knocking the nanos.
Most of us do not recommend them for begginers because most begginers do not realize what they are getting into to begin with.
Most noobs think they need salt and different gravel, and voila! Some are doing a 15gal, because they "got one for free", or something similar. I usually discourage the determination of startout tank size by using "what I had lying around". Simply because by the time you buy all the additional hardware needed to operate a marine tank successfully, the tank is the cheapest investment.
Nanaos can be done, and look stunning, but should really be attemped after one gains knowledge in the hobby.
GL
Great Lakes
Always do right, not popular...
Stop it, you're making me blush... 
)
G
L
) G
Lyekim_4321
Fish Fanatic
OKAY if you want to set up a 25gal Sw tank thats fine no problem, dead easy...........heres how!!
Underneath your 25 gal you will need a 150gal sump tank containg live rock and sand with a cleanup crew an efficient skimmer with Metal Halides, bingo dead easy or what.
HTH
Mick
seriously tho it is a lot of work and money, but if your patient then build up slowly and im sure it will work out fine(maybee not in a 25gal tho)
Underneath your 25 gal you will need a 150gal sump tank containg live rock and sand with a cleanup crew an efficient skimmer with Metal Halides, bingo dead easy or what.
HTH
Mick
seriously tho it is a lot of work and money, but if your patient then build up slowly and im sure it will work out fine(maybee not in a 25gal tho)
remowilliams
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i woul go with the fluval 404 for your 70gal. the 304 says it is for up to 70gal but personally i think it's not enough
EMdina
Fish Fanatic
Hi
I'm not new to fishkeeping (freshwater) but new to the SW realm...actually, haven't set up yet- still in the researching mode......I've been reading anything and everything that I can find on setting up and maintaining a saltwater aquarium....which is what brought me to this side of the forums (I am usually in the New World Cichlid side).....
After reading this thread and the 'pinned articles' I suppose I should be discouraged from setting up my 30 gal tank as a SW...but, instead of being discouraged, I'm determined.....I think to tell a person that they cannot do something based solely on the fact that they have never done it before is unfair. To group all 'newbies' in a generalization that they're going to buy a tank and throw salt, crushed coral and some fish in it and call it a SW is ignorant. Granted, there are folks out there that do this...but to imply that all newbies would do this is unjust.
Granted, if a newbie to freshwater wanted to jump into Discus I would be skeptical...but I would never say it couldn't be done...with patience, dedication and some intellect it can definitely be done....
Anyway, I am setting out to prove you all wrong- that a newbie can set up a 30gal- what you call nano- saltwater tank...
Ericka
I'm not new to fishkeeping (freshwater) but new to the SW realm...actually, haven't set up yet- still in the researching mode......I've been reading anything and everything that I can find on setting up and maintaining a saltwater aquarium....which is what brought me to this side of the forums (I am usually in the New World Cichlid side).....
After reading this thread and the 'pinned articles' I suppose I should be discouraged from setting up my 30 gal tank as a SW...but, instead of being discouraged, I'm determined.....I think to tell a person that they cannot do something based solely on the fact that they have never done it before is unfair. To group all 'newbies' in a generalization that they're going to buy a tank and throw salt, crushed coral and some fish in it and call it a SW is ignorant. Granted, there are folks out there that do this...but to imply that all newbies would do this is unjust.
Granted, if a newbie to freshwater wanted to jump into Discus I would be skeptical...but I would never say it couldn't be done...with patience, dedication and some intellect it can definitely be done....
Anyway, I am setting out to prove you all wrong- that a newbie can set up a 30gal- what you call nano- saltwater tank...
Ericka
leanne
Fish Crazy
I am in the same boat. I am determined that it is going to work. I am not going to rush things. I am not going to cut corners. I am going to be diligent with everything. I don't accept people saying don't do it because its hard - I enjoy a challenge and the world is a better place through people challenging the bundaries (ok i know we wont be going that far).
I think we should start a thread comparing our experiences as "noobs"!
I think we should start a thread comparing our experiences as "noobs"!
EMdina
Fish Fanatic
I haven't read from books...I try not to rely on the word of one person....I've read several websites, several forums...and have been given some 'tutorials' by a couple different people at two different LFS.....and, like I said, am still in the researching phase......I read up on livestock, filtration, skimmers, lighting (most of all),etc...and I'm piecing together the info that I collect and sift through.....really the biggest 'tool' one needs is their brain...
Anyone with a wad of cash can waltz into an LFS and say, 'set me up with a SW/Reef aquarium'- that does not mean that they will be successful based on the lone fact that they've purchased the, state of the art, equipment...yes, they may be at an advantage- however, without the use of their noggin they'll fail....IMO, even with freshwater, the hobby isn't neccessarily 'just the fish'- it's the whole process- the big picture...the planning, the setting up, the maintaining, the upgrading, the evolving...
I wasn't the one that said I had limited funds....granted, I'm not working with a blank check...I know the expense of the hobby (even the freshwater gets expensive- especially when you jump into Discus keeping)...and I wouldn't do something unless I knew that I could do it and do it well...
Leanne- good luck with your aquarium, I hope you're successful.......
Anyone with a wad of cash can waltz into an LFS and say, 'set me up with a SW/Reef aquarium'- that does not mean that they will be successful based on the lone fact that they've purchased the, state of the art, equipment...yes, they may be at an advantage- however, without the use of their noggin they'll fail....IMO, even with freshwater, the hobby isn't neccessarily 'just the fish'- it's the whole process- the big picture...the planning, the setting up, the maintaining, the upgrading, the evolving...
I wasn't the one that said I had limited funds....granted, I'm not working with a blank check...I know the expense of the hobby (even the freshwater gets expensive- especially when you jump into Discus keeping)...and I wouldn't do something unless I knew that I could do it and do it well...
Leanne- good luck with your aquarium, I hope you're successful.......
Great Lakes
Always do right, not popular...
EMdina, I understand your reasoning. You may well be very successful.
In four years, I have gone from a 90 to a 30 to a 125 to adding a 100 gallon sump and a pair of 25 gallon grow out tanks. See the pattern?
When I dropped to the 30 gallon, it was disastrous. Nothing was happy.
We will be here to answer any Q you may have. I just always want everyones first experience with saltwater to be a good one.
In four years, I have gone from a 90 to a 30 to a 125 to adding a 100 gallon sump and a pair of 25 gallon grow out tanks. See the pattern?
When I dropped to the 30 gallon, it was disastrous. Nothing was happy.
We will be here to answer any Q you may have. I just always want everyones first experience with saltwater to be a good one.
EMdina
Fish Fanatic
Thanks....though you may regret offering to answer any questions I might have... 
I tend to be very inquisitive.....
After much deliberation and discussion with my dh, we've decided to convert our 46bow instead....I really love my freshwater SA tank, but I always said that was going to be my stepping stone to SW....I've bred and raised Ram fry, and I've kept Discus- so my next logical step would be SW.....so, I'm going to go for it- use the larger tank for the SW and downgrade my SA tank and put that set up in the 30.....it's a bit hard to swallow- but in the long run, I'm sure I'll be happy that I did...
As I get deeper into this, I will definitely be back for some guidance........
thanks again.....
Ericka
I tend to be very inquisitive.....
After much deliberation and discussion with my dh, we've decided to convert our 46bow instead....I really love my freshwater SA tank, but I always said that was going to be my stepping stone to SW....I've bred and raised Ram fry, and I've kept Discus- so my next logical step would be SW.....so, I'm going to go for it- use the larger tank for the SW and downgrade my SA tank and put that set up in the 30.....it's a bit hard to swallow- but in the long run, I'm sure I'll be happy that I did...
As I get deeper into this, I will definitely be back for some guidance........
thanks again.....
Ericka
leanne
Fish Crazy
That's great EMdina. I wish I had the space for a larger tank. I have the money (just about) but its the space that is limited. I also have to fit in two house bunnies and a parrot (cage and perch) so there are limited places left where the fish can go (and be happy). I have tons of room near my big bay window but I don't think that would be the best of ideas...
Best of luck to us all...
Best of luck to us all...
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