Continued Problems

[ReMz]

OK. I notice you are changing the water every 3-4 days. That seems a little too often to me. It could be you are over-stressing the betta. My experience is the less stress I create, the better the betta usually does in his environment. They really like calm and peaceful surroundings.

I was going to suggest a 100% water change with filtered water that is properly conditioned (ie. all chlorine removed, etc.). Filtered because a lot of nitrites and nitrates can be in city mains water and its possible you are having ammonia spikes. It couldn't hurt to do a 100% change with filtered water and then let it sit for 10 days, very carefully removing an amount of water every day and replacing again with filtered/conditioned water in a way as to not create stress (ie. dribble it in very very very slowly). Filtered means something like a Brita, not bottled water.

It could be your betta is a bit high-strung and needs more time to recover from stress. Don't under-estimate the effect it can have on a betta.

- ken

^^ Disregard everything in this post... it is poor advice.

I'm really a bit shocked that you are still having problems. You have done all the right things and are a very attentive owner.

He certainly does not look healthy to me... As Colin said though, there is certainly a chance that you got a betta with some major problems that are proving to be nearly impossible to cure. The only thing I can really suggest is keeping his water clean (as you are doing) and give him a while off of any meds. He could be overly stressed from all of the treatment, and his immune system may not have the ability to fight off disease anymore. As you know, he probably has developed some sort of tolerance to the meds you have already used. Over-treatment can be just as detrimental as poor water conditions when a betta is ill and has not responded to meds.

If it were my betta, I would keep up with water changes and make sure he has some hiding places. No meds for the time being. Giving him a healthy environment is really the best thing you can do at this point.

His condition (which does not appear dire btw) is certainly not due to lack of competence and care. Keep up the good work and best of luck

edit: btw, i appreciate the detailed info and you ruling out a lot of factors before posting. the detailed pictures are extremely helpful. it's unfortunate that there is really no definite "solution" (as far as im concerned) to the symptoms. i fully understand being attached to a betta and wanting to cure them at all costs (been there). Hope he pulls through.

 

[vet_student07]

Im pretty sure he doesn't have popeye... a couple of thos epictures make him look like he has abnormally large eyes, but he doesn't in reality. A lot of people have said that he looks fine, not to worry etc, but I'm still sure there is something wrong. His colour has faded so much, less active, his tail... yeah...

I've had him off the meds for a few days and since I took him off them his tail got a lot worse rapidly... I feel really helpless because I only want to help him and get him back to full health. He has a big cave that he can comfortably hide in, a silk plant, a bridge he can hide under and around and a smaller ornament that he fits into as well to make him feel more secure.

I have a new filter in the tank with some biomedia in it (has been used in a tank so already has the friendly bacteria) to try and reduce any ammonia and nitrites to try and improve water quality more. I've stuck part of a stocking over the outtake of the filter to reduce the current, and directed teh spraybar upwards to lessen the current even more (theres virtually no current now)

If anyone has any ideas for my boy, please share!

 

[ReMz]

try feeding some frozen bloodworms.... it may help bring him to health to have some nourishing food......

i really hope someone else spots this topic and is thinking 'outside the box'. :\ ... I'm stumped for the time being.

 

[vet_student07]

Will do! thanks again

 

[tibby25731]

I was just gonna suggest feeding some bloodworms to build him up a little. I can't think of anything else for you to try. I'm so sorry, I do hope he pulls through for you. I've never known a betta to not perk up after some bloodworms so I guess that will be a test.

 

[vet_student07]

I've just noticed problems with my other fish (a bristlenose pleco); his pectoral fins and tail are eroding away, seems to be happening fairly quickly.

This is making me very suspicious of the water supply, but how come others haven't had problems? (by others I mean other people in the college with bettas) Could it be a lot of ammonia in the water? if so, what can I do to correct it, besides using a cycled tank? I know there are products that you can buy that are basically a bacteria solution, but then wouldn't there just be a spike in nitrates, and so far as I know the only way to remove nitrates is via water changes, which, if I have dodgy water, cycles back around.

is it possible it could be something to do with the college? i.e. its a very very old building, if the pipes had corroded in areas releasing a chemical into the water?

 

[bronzecat]

Hi

The Bristlenose isn't in the same tank is it? If so, 2.6 gallons is way too small, and could be the root cause of your problems.

 

[vet_student07]

No, he's in a different tank, and is only about 1.5cm long

 

[tibby25731]

Are you in the States? if so, I would say, get one of the bottles of live bacteria that are kept refrigerated which will instantly cycle your tank. At least if this doesn't correct your problems you will know it is not a problem with cycling. ANother expense, i know, but worth it for the peace of mind

 

[ThePiggy]

I use bottled water from the supermarket. I re-use the same gallon containers to get refills at the store and it's only 33 cents per gallon. I just let the water sit for a day to get to room temperature and add some water conditioner just before I put it in the tank.

Another option (though a pricey one) is to get the bottled water that's specifically meant for bettas. It's called Betta H2O. I use it when my bettas get a torn fin or of they are stressed for some other reason. I only use it on occasion because it's about $4 for a 32 oz. bottle. But it may aid your betta with his recovery. You could try it for a couple weeks to see if it helps. On the bottle, it reads:
"Betta H2O is more than just water. Use this specially conditioned, de-ionized water boosted with Fish Aid to help your betta thrive. Just replace 20% of your old water with Betta H2O every week to help maintain their health and vitality. Your betta will thank you!
-Preconditioned water
-Chlorine free
-No heavy metals
-Stimulates slime coat
-Reduces fish stress
-Protects against infection
-Ph balanced"

They say 20% once a week, but I do about 50% twice a week when I'm using it to help the betta heal. In your case, you may want to use in it conjunction with store bought water since your tap water is questionable.

I hope this helps!

 

[Colin_T]

You could always get your tap water tested for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH & copper. You might also ring your local water corporation and find out if you have chloramine in your tap water. If so you will need to use a water conditioner that breaks down chloramine and traps or binds the remaining free ammonia.
If you have chloramine in the water and it isn't removed before you use it in the tank, the fish could be suffering from poisoning due to the chloramine.
If your tap water has chlorine and not chloramine, then a normal dechlorinator is fine. And if your tap water has no ammonia, nitrite, nitrate or copper in and the PH is close to neutral (7.0), then I would make up a bucket of tap water, add some dechlorinator, aerate the heck out of it for a few days to a week, and then use that for water changes. You could even have a box filter with some carbon in the bucket of water to absorb any chemicals that might be in the water. After a few days of carbon filtration you remove the carbon and add something like Sera Aquatan or Blackwater extract. These products have tannins and other things in to help improve/ promote fish health.

If your tap water has nitrates, copper, etc in, then using reverse osmosis (R/O), distilled, or de-ionised water would be the way to go. But add some mineral salts to it to help increase the hardness and prevent PH fluctuations. Again, aerate the mixture for a couple of days before you use it.
Water changes can stress the fish if the new water is significantly different from the tank water, however if the new water is the same temp and PH as the tank water then you can do 90% water changes without any problems. Doing big daily water changes will help to dilute any bacteria or other pathogens in the tank and give the fish cleaner water to recover/ live in.

If you have copper in your tap water then running the taps for a few minutes before collecting the water, will help to flush out the contaminated water and give you cleaner safer water to use. A carbon filter will also help but needs to be replaced regularly. Activated carbon is better than regular carbon. If you do have copper in your water then you should also drink filtered water to prevent a build up of copper in your body.

You could check with the other students in your college and see what type of water conditioner they use. Also see what they feed their fish.

If the bristlenose in another tank is having its fins erode away then there is possibly a bacterium that has been spread from the Betta tank to the other tank. Otherwise it is a water quality issue. Do you have test kits and if so, how old are they, are they kept cool when not in use, are they liquid or paper test kits?