Continued Problems

[vet_student07]

I know I keep posting here guys, but I really do need your help.

I stopped treatments recently and just kept making sure Casper (My CT betta) had clean water (with just a little bit of salt) because none of the meds helped him (I've been trying to treat him for what I thought was fin rot, as the tips of his fins were disappearing slowly (not tail biting))

Since I stopped the treatment his tail suddenly got worse (a lot worse, about 3mm now looks dead on each part), his pectoral fins have a lot more black spots and lines on them, and he has a red lining on the front of his gills and another red line in front of that, as well as tiny red spots on his eyes and a reddish tinge to his head. I looked up stress stripes which looks kinda like my boy except he only has the two red areas in front of his gills, none on the rest of the body. He used to have faint reddish tinged areas here, but noway near this obvious. He's also a lot less active but still eats OK. His overall colour has also decreased a lot (he seems very faded, not vibrant) and his fins appear transparent when out.

What is WRONG with this guy? He just does NOT get better

Information
- 2.6gal tank
- unfiltered as of yet
- has a silk plant and a smooth river rock cave
- small heater; tank at 27deg celcius
- no gravel anymore (to try and keep the tank cleaner)
- 25% water changes a day at the moment, 100% every 3-4days
- pH between 7 and 7.2
- Have tried Tetracycline, Triple sulfa, salt, an antifungal treatment
Others keep bettas in the college and haven't had any problems with the water supply- their bettas are totally healthy

Pictures;

The day I brought him home- very vibrant colours

Red areas and fin rot

fin rot

Red on the top of his head

I cannot get photos of the red spots on the outer region of his eyes as theyre far too fine.

 

[modaz]

To be honest he looks absolutely fine to me, the redness in these areas i wouldnt be worried about, some bettas have the marble gene present and even with the main colours he has he will change colour slightly is some areas and could conintue changing as well, his eyes look bright and his scales are fine too, his tail isnt an issue either, its not finrot as you say its just the way that some crowntails go as time goes on, i suppose if i had to drag around tail extensions everyday im sure they would get a bit scruffy. Thats all he is just scruffy.
his tank set up is fine and there isnt any signs of anything else it could be.

 

[vet_student07]

Really? how come his fins just suddenly keep getting worse? He wasn't this bad when I got him from the pet store, that was about 11 weeks ago?

He's always been really active, eager to come over etc, always swimming around, but now he's lethargic, always resting. The only other thing is that if it was just normal wear and tear/scruffyness, wouldny it be on all of the fins? this is mostly just affecting the upper half of his tail, not the lower half, ventrals etc which drag across the plant, gravel (when it was there) etc. The lower sections are fine...

thanks for the speedy reply

 

[tibby25731]

He looks a bit skinny to me, though I personally wouldn't worry about his tail

 

[ThePiggy]

I also think he looks thin. In the first picture he looks a little bloated in comparison to how skinny he is. Was that one taken just after feeding him? In the rest of the pictures he just looks skinny. I don't know the symptoms, but maybe one of the experts here can tell you what to look for if he has internal parasites or bacterial infection. How much and how often do you feed him? What kind of food do you use?

 

[vet_student07]

I'm not intentionally starving this boy, sorry if it seems that way- everywhere you read to not overfeed bettas as its their biggest killer etc. The first picture was taken soon after I got him home from the petstore, and I hadn't yet fed him. I did fast him for 2 days and give him some pea as people recommended at the time. At the moment he's been getting 4 Tetra brand betta pellets a day. Exactly how many of these pellets should I feed him? I haven't yet been able to find a definitive answer on this.

Thanks guys

 

[ThePiggy]

You should feed him about 8-10 daily. Two feedings of 4 or 5. And weekly, you can give him a frozen treat like bloodworm. It comes in frozen blocks, and you just break of a little bit and let it thaw. It should be about 4 worms. A feeding of a pea once a week is good for his digestion. You can pour some boiling water over it and let it thaw out like that, then smash it between your fingers and pinch off little bite-sized bits.

Poor water conditions at the pet store in combination with most chain pet stores not feeding their fish enough can lead to a weakened, illness-prone fish. This could be why his fins aren't healing up.

 

[CDNFreelancer]

OK. I notice you are changing the water every 3-4 days. That seems a little too often to me. It could be you are over-stressing the betta. My experience is the less stress I create, the better the betta usually does in his environment. They really like calm and peaceful surroundings.

I was going to suggest a 100% water change with filtered water that is properly conditioned (ie. all chlorine removed, etc.). Filtered because a lot of nitrites and nitrates can be in city mains water and its possible you are having ammonia spikes. It couldn't hurt to do a 100% change with filtered water and then let it sit for 10 days, very carefully removing an amount of water every day and replacing again with filtered/conditioned water in a way as to not create stress (ie. dribble it in very very very slowly). Filtered means something like a Brita, not bottled water.

It could be your betta is a bit high-strung and needs more time to recover from stress. Don't under-estimate the effect it can have on a betta.

- ken

 

[ThePiggy]

It's in the original post

- 25% water changes a day at the moment, 100% every 3-4days

 

[CDNFreelancer]

It's in the original post

- 25% water changes a day at the moment, 100% every 3-4days

Thanks. Noticed that and modified my post.

 

[Honeythorn]

A bigger tank may help with water parameters, and a small gentle sponge filter would be a FAR better form of filtration than water form a Brita filter. Changing 25% of the water on a 2.6 gallon tank every few days is certainly not excessive. A proper filter will work to remove Ammonia and nitrites due to the bacterial colony. Water changes would still be nessescary of course but with a bigger tank ( 5 gals for example ) and a proper filter the water parameter will be much easier to maintain and ammonia spikes ( which are a big cause of stress and disease ) will be less likely with regular maintenence.

OP. Even a plastic storage bin will be better than nothing if you don't have a bigger tank to hand. You can get them up to 17 gallons so a cheap clear plastic 5 gallon should be no trouble to get hold of. Set it up the same way you have your current tank, but with the addition of a gentle sponge filter ( they produce little to no current at all so he wouldn't be bothered by that ) and of course your heater. keeping his water stable will go a long way to keeping him healthy. Some more plants would also be a good idea, with just one plant and a cave he may feel a bit exposed, they are known to like lots of resting and hiding places, so a few more bunches of nice silk plants for him to lurk in may be a good idea also. You could add a few real plants, I think mossballs would be a good choice. They do fine in low light ( they are actually a form of algae that stays in a ball and doesn't spread about ) are fine for bettas to rest on, and will use up a small amount of nitrate too if you have a few of them .

I also think he looks a tad thin, but to be honest I can't see any blackening of finrot in these pictures. The areas you've circled look fine to my eyes. He just looks to be a slightly skinny crowntail to me.

 

[ThePiggy]

A 2.6 gallon tank is on the small side. To keep the water safe, water changes need to be done 3-4 times a week of about 30-40%

10 days is too long to wait between water changes.

 

[Colin_T]

To be honest I think you bought a dud fish from the start. His body shape is wrong and he is suffering from popeye, a bacterial infection and some sort of internal problem, either a muscle wasting disease or TB.

The 1st pic he has a fat stomach but a skinny body, and a red patch just behind his head, above his gill cover before it goes blue. The red patch looks like a minor bacterial infection. The top of his head is also too straight. It should be slightly curved outwards.

In the 2nd pic the red patch between the eyes is an inflammation in the brain or labyrinth organ. This is common in fish that have been exposed to poor water quality. The red patch behind that looks like the minor bacterial infection.

The 4th pic shows his back is wasting away. It doesn't have a nice gentle curve of a normal fish, but instead shows a staggered, almost flattened area before the dorsal fin, and an inward curve between the dorsal and caudal fin (tail). It also shows the tail missing bits.

The 5th pic shows a slight waver where the anal fin joins the body. It should be a nice even line but your fish has almost a mild s shape.

The last pic shows the bacterial infection on his head and also shows his eyes sticking out more than they should be.

You could try treating him for intestinal worms and skin parasites but it will cost less to replace him. Stop putting salt in his water because Bettas don't naturally occur in areas with salt. The salt could be putting more stress on his kidneys.
I would add more variation to his diet. Flake and pellet foods will sustain a fish but not help them do much else. Try offering him some frozen or live foods. Raw prawn is pretty good as is frozen bloodworms. These foods will cause the water to go off sooner so you will have to do more water changes, ie: 50% each day. Make sure any new water is free of chlorine before it goes into the tank.
Other foods include small insects that are free of chemicals, pesticides. Things like aphids, flies, mosquitoes and mozzie larvae all make great food. Feed him as much as he can eat in a few minutes. Then remove any uneaten food.
You can add vitamin C and beta-carotene to his food. This can help build up his immune system and might help him live longer.

Make sure you wash your hands with soapy water after working on his tank. if it is something like TB you can contract it through cuts in the skin. Washing with warm soapy water should help prevent you developing any infections.

 

[vet_student07]

Thanks very much for your comments and advice guys!

He doesn't seem to stress at all during water changes (he stays in a large bowl of water (covered)) and will always stay near you (the side of the tank or bowl that your on) and will follow your finger very rapidly, take food from my finger etc. Never had stress stripes or showed any signs of stress whatso ever.

I know a lot of people would say "he's just a fish" but he's got a fantastic personality and very interactive.. so I don't just want to toss him aside and get a new fish. Have already spent a heap on him ($15 for heater, $11 on filter, $3 gravel, $8 to make his cave, $12 in plants, $40 for tetracycline, triple sulfa, melafix, salt and an antifungal, $26 tank etc. for a $9.95 fish- a lot of people would think I'm nuts, but I made a committment and to me he's not just any old fish..

Anyone else have any opinions on the TB, popeye etc? I thought the only problem he had was with his fins.

I'll start feeding him more to try and get his condition up

Thanks again

 

[ThePiggy]

I think that colin is jumping to conclusions. I'm not saying that he's wrong, but just because he's a skinny fish, doesn't mean he has TB, or some other disease. Bettas body shapes vary, so saying that his head "should" be a certain way isn't right. Every single one of my bettas that I've ever had each had a unique shape and look. Also the fish could have been in motion when the pictures were taken, so we don't have to jump to the conclusion of deformities.

You should rule out poor nutrition first. So, if he doesn't improve with better diet, then we can move on to ruling out something else. It wouldn't hurt to be extra sanitary just incase it is a disease that you can contract.

As far as the redness, to me, it just looks like his coloration. If it begins to change, maybe looks open or sore, then you should let us know.

I know how easy it is to get attached to these little guys. I usually get attached while I'm window shopping It's an admirable trait to be so devoted. Your betta is lucky to have such a friend. And when you do cure him, you will be able to see his thanks in his happiness.