Coldwater Fish Aren't 'other Pets'!

[dgwebster]

im seeing the debate of whether they are tropical or not coming up in here again. so stop arguing that they are tropical, cos as the scientific community stands ATM, they are coldwater. the end. personal re-classification is fine, but untill such time as a majority stance is taken adn the are scientifically relassified into tropical catagories, do not argue that point.

however it IS good to argue that they are not cats dogs hamsters etc and so not really "other pets" but "other aquatic pets" maybe there should be an "other aquatic pets" title to just end it and catch everything else that lives in water?

 

[PaulEbs]

I think it's unfair to summarise this conversation like that webster. You are right that 'fancy' goldfish are scientifically named 'coldwater cyprinids', but that does not mean they are not tropical.

However, I sense I have annoyed a few people with this suggestion, so let's just leave it

 

[dgwebster]

apologies the point i was making was that it started as a suggestion to have a section for goldies, and instead it was starting into another debate about them being tropical. it was moving very rapidly away from the topic of "can they have their own section" - whether they are tropical or not should not really be the essence here. the essence is that they are fish, they should not be put in with bearded dragons for example.

 

[PaulEbs]

heh heh..
yeh, your right.

The main point is that coldwater and pond fish are in the category 'other pets'. Which IMO sounds like a forum for dogs, cats, rabbits, horses, donkeys, and the likes.

 

[PaulEbs]

Any chance of a say from the admin?

What do you guys think?

 

[OohFeeshy]

And what exactly do you want done? Its just a matter of placement- putting it in a section of it's onw won't suddenly make hundreds of people turn up.

 

[PaulEbs]

Just an extra board in the tropical section for coldwater cyprinids.

Or maybe a coldwater cyprinid sub board in the cyprinids section?

 

[OohFeeshy]

It's really, really not worth the bother..... Like it or lump it, moving it will do nothing for no one except, it appears, you.

 

[Torrean]

I think moving the coldwater forum to the fish forums section as well as creating a new forum for subtropicals is a great idea that has been suggested before. I hope this time the admin takes notice and moves things around a bit. Putting coldwater under other pets is just odd.

PS try the other side of the bed tonight guys...the one you woke up on this morning was apparently the wrong side.

 

[Spader]

I also agree it shouldnt be in other pets as i didnt know a coldwater section existed until i read this. and other pets is saying pets OTHER than fish. but cut the arguing jeeze can this stay as a conversation?

 

[Synirr]

Goodness... Then post about fancy goldfish in the Characins and Cyprinds section if you're that bothered about it. Or ion the hybrids section, considering how viley mutated most of them are...

Hey now, we don't want them over in hybrids either!
I kid, I kid... but seriously, goldies are Carassius auratus, not hybrids. The fancy varieties are linebred to look the way they do, not hybridized, so they don't belong in the hybrid section.

 

[Iron Man]

Yes..I'm very against hybridizing fish that otherwise wouldn't in nature...but line breeding is different. Most fish that haven't been wild caught have been line bred whether they were meant to or not....that's just the "nature" of the aquarium business.

That is why fish that have been bred in the aquarium for any length of time are more adaptable to aquarium life (from birth) than their wild caught counterparts.

And I wouldn't use the word "vilely mutated" either.

Just because you don't prefer to keep this particular type of fish doesn't mean you have to knock on other people's pets.

By your standards, most all domestic dogs are "grossly mutated" and on and on.

Also by your standards, the "Saltwater Invertebrates and Corals" which is currently under the "Tropical Saltwater - Reefs and Marine" category should also be under "other pets". In fact, there is nothing "fishy" about invertebrates, corals, or REEFS in general! Are you talking about fish or tropical aquatic creatures or what? By your standards...the two should be completely and utterly seperated from each other on this forum at all costs, so why aren't creatures that aren't fish, though they be "tropical", in the "other pets" category?

I know that it is trendy to knock on the goldfish for the tropical fish keepers, but this needs to end.

If we could only know the percentage of tropical fish keepers who owe their first learning experiences to having kept that poor goldfish in a bowl (which died because of ignorance).

How many goldfish have lost their lives as "feeder fish" to people who don't see them as "equal" to most other aquarium fish?

The tropical fish community owes the goldfish (and their owners) much more respect and regard than they have been given. Certainly more than to be "other pets" on a fish forum.

 

[Synirr]

Well, this is a tropical fish forum, and goldfish are coldwater, even if some of the fancy varieties can live in tropical and subtropical temps. They still do better in water in the 65 degree range which is well below what I'd call tropical, so that considered, it seems to me like Other Pets is the best section for the forum out of the sections we currently have.

It doesn't look active enough to me to split into a couple of separate forums (say "Goldfish" and "Other coldwater fishes", for example), and having a category with just one forum under it is silly, so what do you want to do about it? Why don't we just delete it altogether?
I kid, I kid... but seriously, what's the big deal? The forum itself is called Coldwater Fish and Ponds, so you can't very well put it in the Tropical section. Perhaps just take the "pets" out of "Other Pets" so it doesn't sound like it's solely for non-fish pets?

EDIT: I was going to say you could just post about fancies in Cyprinids, Characins and Atherinids, but then that splits topics about common types and fancy types into different forums, which is also just confusing and silly.

 

[OohFeeshy]

I kid, I kid... but seriously, goldies are Carassius auratus, not hybrids. The fancy varieties are linebred to look the way they do, not hybridized, so they don't belong in the hybrid section.

I know that Just making a point. Maybe there should be a sub-section in the Hybrids forum entitled 'Mutants'. Thats got a good ring to it

Just because you don't prefer to keep this particular type of fish doesn't mean you have to knock on other people's pets.

Knocking, no, briefly skimming over the wide range of health problems (seen the PFK article about new legislation possibly mentioning (maybe banning) some fancy goldfish? They have to be pretty awful to get animal cruelty legislation about them), not to mention the fact that most of them are plain ugly.... Who wants a fish who's eyeballs look like they've been given collagen injections and face the wrong way? But lets ignore that for now.

By your standards, most all domestic dogs are "grossly mutated" and on and on.

Some are, indeed. Again, health problems associated.

Also by your standards,

Hold on, whose standards? Mine? I don't recall mentioning this...

the "Saltwater Invertebrates and Corals" which is currently under the "Tropical Saltwater - Reefs and Marine" category should also be under "other pets".

In fact, there is nothing "fishy" about invertebrates, corals, or REEFS in general!

In case you didn't notice, 'Tropical Saltwater - Reefs and Marine' doesn't contain the word fish. nd it is, in actual fact, a seperate section, not in the tropical fish section. Reef tank do, in the majority of cases, contain fish, but in the majority of cases, coldwater tanks aren't tropical. Funnily enough.

Are you talking about fish or tropical aquatic creatures or what? By your standards...the two should be completely and utterly seperated from each other on this forum at all costs, so why aren't creatures that aren't fish, though they be "tropical", in the "other pets" category?

Heh? Didn't catch a word of that, but other pets is a section for creatures that aren't tropical, or salt water, or tech related. Fish can be included.

I know that it is trendy to knock on the goldfish for the tropical fish keepers, but this needs to end.

Whats trendy Not liking fancy goldfish, you mean? I like my fish as natural as possible, not inbred up to the eyeballs, skin folds, hunchbacks, 'I've swallowed a beanbag' belly and invisible dorsals.

If we could only know the percentage of tropical fish keepers who owe their first learning experiences to having kept that poor goldfish in a bowl (which died because of ignorance).

How many goldfish have lost their lives as "feeder fish" to people who don't see them as "equal" to most other aquarium fish?

Having them in a different section doesn't make them 'unequal'. It's common sense. Since you're talking about it however, how many bettas are being kept in those vile betta hexes, or similar? How many bala sharks are being kept in 10gs? How many common plecs are kept in tank way too small? Hopw many clownfish and tangs are bearing the brunt of 'I want a nemo tank!'? Cruelty happends everywhere, not just to goldfish.

The tropical fish community owes the goldfish (and their owners) much more respect and regard than they have been given.

Why exactly? Respects respect, not liking them is another matter completely.

 

[andywg]

This site is called Tropical Fish Forums. The main, and largest, part is dedicated to various types of tropical (and occasionally sub-tropical) fish.

There is a burgeoning reef and marine fish community (and one should remember that reefs contain tropical fish too - tropical refers to temperature and place of origin, not the salinity of the water) and since the inverts are such an integral part of the reef they are included there. A decision (I assume) has been taken to keep all the marine stuff together as it is generally seperate from the FW equipment and it would get messy trying to split it all up and having bits dotted all over the forum.

The other pets is for just that, other pets - pets that are not covered by Tropical. At the moment there is not the relevant number of posts to warrant a whole forum for the goldfish. Until recently there was only one catfish forum, and no nano-reef forum, but since there became a large number of threads on thos sections then new forums were added.

If a large number of people commenced posting about goldfish then it is more than possible another forum would be created, but until then it just isn't necessary.