case of the missing ventrals

[cutecotton]

Well, some of the babies from my curretn spawn are missing its ventrals, and i'm sttruggling to think abotu why and how to avoid it next time.

I'm pretty sure i kept my water clean when they were young, becuase i've been doing water changes twice a day for 3 weeks with an airline tubing so i'm pretty sure it's clean.

Any ideas why?

 

[JoKeR]

Well I think its Fungus...That got to them while they were grwoing them

But on the other hand Im no breeder.....

 

[endparenthesis]

They say you need to frequently wipe down the bottom with a sponge too. I'm betting plenty of spawns go fine without doing that. The process will probably never go perfectly... might as well just focus on the fish that came out healthy.

 

[cutecotton]

i know but quite a few of my fry came out wtihout ventrals

 

[JoKeR]

How much percent of the fry cameout like that?

 

[cutecotton]

close to 50%

 

[fourplayfishy]

i wonder if its any of the girlies... i want one with out ventrals cuz they special!!!

 

[cutecotton]

lol fourplayfishy, i'm sure there's probably a girl without ventrals in my spawn i'll be looking for homes for them as well, good to know that they won't be treated like trash just becuase they're missing two fins one of my favoirte ones actually dont' have ventrals, but the color on him/her is amazing

 

[Inchworm]

Hi cutecotton

I've been thinking about this since your post on an earlier thread, but do not have an answer.

Perhaps I can help by raising some questions that others can answer to help resolve the matter.

First, let me ask the most obvious question: have you ruled out the possibility that this is a genetic problem and that it might be best not to take any extraordinary measures to save them? (Please don't be upset that I asked.) Or is this something that happens to all bettas?

 

[xXMrBonesXx]

inchworm- from reading spawn records here and there i think missing ventrals is only a no good situation if your planning on entering them in shows but they will live long happy lives without them, I'm not 100% positive on that but about 90%

 

[cutecotton]

inchworm: i'm not entirely sure that this isn't gneetic, but both parents do have ventrals..so i really don't know why the fry wouldn't. I'm not tryign to save this spawn, but i do want to try adn figure out what i did (if anything) that cuold have cuased this so i can prevent it next time.

mr.bones - ur rightt, ehy do live full and happy lives without ventrals, and since i'm not entering them into shows or anything like that, it doesnt' really make a difference. Except i do plan to sell them and i doubt someone would want a betta that deosnt' have ventrals

 

[Inchworm]

inchworm- from reading spawn records here and there i think missing ventrals is only a no good situation if your planning on entering them in shows but they will live long happy lives without them, I'm not 100% positive on that but about 90%

Hi xXMrBonesXx

I think they probably could live well enough without them. I was actually thinking more along the lines that if it was a genetic issue, it might be better to find another pair of breeders than to keep running into the problem and maybe passing it along to future generations.

 

[cation]

MrBones, you're right. They can grow up and be very happy as pets, although I would be hesitant to breed bettas that didn't have ventrals. (not that you did, cc, I know you didn't - I just meant the future owners of your fry.)

The most common cause of missing ventrals seems to be a bacteria that lives on the bottom of the fry tank, from what I've read. As endparenthesis said, it is recommended that one wipe the bottom of the tank down at least every other day.

So, here's my question - has anyone who breeds bettas with a substrate in the tank had this problem? I know that most folks have bare bottom tanks for breeding, but I've read some recent accounts of people that have sand on the bottom for there plants, and have successful spawns. Is this bacteria one that flourishes in a bare bottom tank, or do fry without ventrals ever occur in tanks with substrate?

 

[fourplayfishy]

for 1 i want one... they special cuz they different from everyone else for the genetic thing... it could be a subtle thing like its in both of the parents past but they both have them sorta thing like if your grandma has red hair but your mom has like natural black or something

 

[wuvmybetta]

Well, I have several theories. CC and I have both discussed the scuzzy bottom idea. Knowing we both keep our tanks immaculate,that can't be it. Out of a spawn of 80 ct's I had 3 who came out without ventrals (and wouldn't ya know they're the best looking of the bunch despite that flaw ) and that's the only spawn of mine I've ever seen this in.
As in cc's case it's 50%.
So I believe it to be genetics, a mutation of sorts...kind of like a doubletail. If both parents carry this gene and the two allele happen to hook up,the results are a fry with no ventrals. Slim chance of it happening, and cc's overwhelming amount makes me kinda doubt that theory of mine all together.

I also think that maybe they're fry who's ventrals were nipped off by the others at a very young age and they never grew back. Damage at a tender,young age can be irreversible.

EDIT~ Also....I never,ever wipe down the bottom of my tanks. I skim/scrape the gravel vac over the bottom and I see a fine,stuck on film but it's no biggie. Only having 3 fry ever come out without ventrals...I still doubt that theory.