Cant Get My Ph To Stabilise?

[craigybaby37]

will keep you posted on how things are going.

And thanks for the help i appreciate it.

 

[1entra]

No probs, just glad I could help

 

[SkiFletch]

That's some nice surface agitation . We can definitely rule-out CO2 buildup with that much agitation. There remain only 2 common reasons for low pH. One, high ambient CO2. In the winter time when we close our houses down and don't let air out, ambient CO2 can be higher than nonrmal. If ambient CO2 is high, no amount of surface agitation can help.

Second, low alkalinity. Your calcium is just fine at 440ppm. But if your alkalinity is low, so will your pH be low

 

[craigybaby37]

how can i adjust alkalinity then??? and i wasnt aware that i tested for alkalinity...unless u can work it out from the tank params i gave??


just a quick question do hermits shed there skin as i woke up in the night an checked my tank and found an exact replica of my black n white hermits crab....firstly i fort it had died an was out of its shell but then i saw it alive and well on a rock above it??? and i know i only have 1 black n white hermit in my tank.

 

[Matthew5664]

Sorry to jump in.......................

You can find Alkalinity test kits in your LFS, or you should do if it stocks salt water livestock. You could work out what it should be given your pH, Calcium and Magnesium, as Ski said they all work in conjunction and a fall in one can lead to a fall in the others. Another thing to consider is what time you are testing you pH as it will be the highest before lights out and lowest before lights up. Also the amount and duration of light you have in your lighting cycle will influence your pH as during the day phytoplankton in the water use the light to produce energy and give of O2 rising the pH. If your lighting cycle is too short then they cannot counter balance the night time activity when the opposite happens and they give of CO2.

As for the hermit, yes they do molt.

 

[dilbert]

Sorry for jumping in, too.

First of all, invertebrates are more on risk by high ammonia values. The actual values you posted in your first post are not that high. The only thing is in such a situation you need to test probably twice a day as spikes can come very fast in such instable system.

The whole system is unfortunately in a bad state that needs constant attention. Maybe daily water changes are necessary. If you try to neutralise ammonia and nitrites with Amquel+ for example bear in mind that Amquel+ adds more acid to your tank that lowers the ph even further.

I would stop feeding and remove dead animals and maybe take out the cleaner crew as those invertebrates seem to be the first that die and pollute the water. Fish are generally more hardy. At least with nitrite and ammonia below 1.0 ppm they shouldn't have any problems.

A great disadvantage is that the tank is that great that you can't remove the LR to get hold of all those small critters from the cleaner crew.

ph 7.8 is the minmum you can run a tank with in an exceptional situation. I would try first to stabilise this tank as removal of livestock and changes in ph also affect the nitrifying bacteria. If they lower their number then the whole parameters start to swing again and it becomes a daytime job to maintain this tank.

I would take out first the snails as the greatest polluters and they seem to be most affected by the ammonia spikes.

If nitrites and ammonia is below 1.0 ppm don't do anything apart from removing all detritus and everything that can rot. You can add kalkwasser with great caution as your ph might jump up or a liquid marine buffer (Seachem, e.g.) that levers your ph more gently, 0.1 or 0.2 units only.

You have to wait until ammonia and nitrite are going down and do water testing for them and for ph twice a day to take action if again something unexpected happens. A ph of 8.0 is absolutely fine until you got everything settled.

 

[craigybaby37]

so i done a P water change last night and all was good....i wake up this morning an everything looks ok so i get another bucket of water mixed up ready to do another change when ime home tonight.

i walk into my room and the tank looks like this (picture is from mobile phone as digi cam out of batterys.

[URL="http/img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/cra...21122007727.jpg"]http/img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/cra...21122007727.jpg[/URL]

from when i left for work this morning at 8 and when i come home at 2 my rocks are covered in diatoms would this be anything to do with the nitrite and ammonia spike settling down?? kinda like when the tank first cycles and everything settles and then u get your diatom outbreak???

Things are definatly on the up for my RO filter i was very very supprised at how much of a difference not having the unit completely upright can make.
I had it slightly tilted (as space was limited) and the water was coming out at 200ppm ish and i took it off the clips stood it outside the unit completely upright and almost instantly it was down to 25ppm.....and today i got my DI resin filter through so ive fitted that and the produce water now comes out at 0ppm......perfect. ive tested all the produce water and it doesnt let a single thing through.

If anyone hasnt got one of them DI resin filters fitted ide reccommend it to anyone i got mine from ebay for £16

 

[SkiFletch]

Yes, the diatom outbreak is normal and what I would expect. You should get an alkalinity testeras matthew said, cause it will really help out in determining the cause of low pH. You can raise alkalinity with baking soda if you know what you're doing . But you first have to konw if alk is too low with a test kit before you can judge how much to add

 

[craigybaby37]

ime going to my lfs tomorow so will defo get one then.....is there any other test kits you would recommend??

Glad the diatoms are normall fort it was another problem with the tank......thing is i only have 5 small nassuris snails 1 turbo snail and 2 hermits to clean the whole lot up.......hopefully they will do a gd enough job till i can start building the cleanup crew again as i dont wanna risk damaging anymore inverts.

 

[craigybaby37]

just a small update on things....done some tests and results are as follows.

Temp 80F
salinity 1.023
nitrate 30ppm
nitrite 0ppm
ammonia 0ppm
ph 8.2 (it finally got there on its own)
calcium 420ppm

so things are looking good finaly......done something very silly and went to my lfs yesterday and got a fish for my tropical tank and totaly forgot about getting a alkalinity test kit...doh

ill give them a ring today and see if they are open and if so ill go and get 1 today.

 

[craigybaby37]

went to my LFS and couldnt find anything specificly saying it tests for alkalinity???

whats the difference between and alkaline PH and alkalinity anyways?? as i was aware anything above a ph of 7.0 was classed as an alkaline yes??

What other kits can i get to try find my problem as tank stats are

temp 80F
PH 8.2
salinity 1.023
nitrate 20 - 30ppm
nitrite 0ppm
ammonia 0ppm
calcium 440ppm

tanks looking so much cleaner and test results aint to bad but something is still causing my corals to hibinate as they aint opened yet.

 

[dilbert]

went to my LFS and couldnt find anything specificly saying it tests for alkalinity???

whats the difference between and alkaline PH and alkalinity anyways??

I haven't gone to the bottom of the difference between alkalinity and KH (carbonate hardness) but I guess those terms are used interchangeably in a wrong manner.

Some tests are called "alkaliniy" and others "KH". (Saltwater tests for GH don't exist for some reason, I believe.)

Still haven't digged my books about chemistry but there should be everything explained. Also, the reason why the alkalinity/KH test is that important and high figures guarantee a good buffering of the ph value.

But for getting the test kit you only have to look for "alkalinity" or "KH" kits for seawater. I got four of them (Kent, fasTest, Tetra, and Nutrafin) and all show something different, but at least all figures are in between the limits, i.e. 7 to 13 degrees.

 

[craigybaby37]

so what i need is a carbonate hardness or KH test kit right?? and then do a test and see what it comes out at and adjust as much as it needs.

 

[dilbert]

Yes. Some tests have written "alkalinity" on it, some "KH" and some both. Make sure it's for saltwater, too. The test themselves are cumbersome as have you have to count the drops you need to add that one colour changes to the other, e.g. blue to yellow or so.

Hopefully, you're in the range. I have no clue how to adjust alkalinity. I guess with aragonite sand or crushed corals or so.

My ph drops always and I added first "Liquid marine Buffer ph 8.3" (expensive) and now I top up the evaporated water with water from a bottle where I prepared "kalkwasser" from Seachem (cheaper).

I check calcium levels eitherway and measure the ph before and after adding the kalkwasser mix.

 

[SkiFletch]

"Alkalinity" test kits test for the presence of Carbonate and Bicarbonate ions in seawater. Its a measure of "Carbonate Hardness" and the scale measure of KH is one way to read it. The other common scale for reading carbonate hardness is meq/L.

GH is a test for "Ground Hardness" and measures the sum of all ions in solution. This test will work for seawater solutions but is pretty useless because there are SO MANY ions in seawater it's pointless to measure their total.

The term "Alkaline" refers to all solutions with a pH greater than 7 while the term "Acid" refers to solutions with a pH less than 7. The reason you need an "alkaline" test kit is that pH test kits typically have a small range in which they are capable of measuring. Using an acidic pH test kit which works for pH of say 6-7.5 won't work on a seawater setup. It'll just read 7.5 as it is incapable of reading higher. Make sense?

Now, having sufficient alkalinity (KH, carbonate hardness, etc) is important in keeping pH high and stable. Carbonate is a buffer and will naturally help buffer a solution in the low 8's of pH which is exactly where it's supposed to be. If it is deficient in your system, it can be a component of low pH.