Can someone please explain the Waste to Ammonia to NO2 to NO3 cycle to me im a bit confused.....

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

it is very disheartening....... I did a water change last night and NO2 was at 0.25ppm, I meant to do 2 but fell asleep on the sofa, this morning ive tested the water again and its at 1ppm, I seem to be fighting with this, so ive done another water change before leaving for work and tested and got it down to 0.50ppm, no more dead fish yet, i'll do another change or 2 tonight.

I think at 1ppm of NO2 may just be that API stuff wearing off.

I also put the water wisteria in last night although im not 100% sure they actually sent me the right stuff, doesnt look like wisteria, I also put some water lettuce in.

I'm guessing with levels risking that quickly that there are quite a few fish in there? Sorry, I don't know your tank/post history beyond this thread but will have a scan over it later. Don't feed the fish for now, since more food in = more waste out, and fish can go for weeks without food, since they take their body temperature from the water and don't need food to keep their body temp up like us mammals do. So, fasting them for a few days won't harm them, and will give the bacteria time to catch up.

You've shown that you have both types of bacteria, so you're closer to being there than you think! I know all the water changes gets old after a while, but it really is temporary, you'll get through it! Once things settle in and the tank gets established, once per week changes are usually enough, depending on tank size and stocking of course.

Poor plant does look a bit battered! But will hopefully perk up in the tank. Some of those lower leaves do look a bit like water wisteria, so it might be, but the plant being a bit battered makes it tough to tell. It should perk up now it's in the tank, and plants help to process ammonia, so this one and the water lettuce should help too, gotta be patient.

If the suspected water wisteria doesn't perk up though and starts to look as though it might be dying, send a photo for us to check, since dying plant matter can also release ammonia. Unlikely to be a problem, and doesn't mean the plant can't be saved so don't be too quick to remove it, let us check it first, since sometimes trimming and removing the dead/dying parts is enough and they can be removed, then the rest of the plant flourishes. Not likely to be a problem, but wanted to let you know, just in case!

 

[Goose3080]

I'm guessing with levels risking that quickly that there are quite a few fish in there? Sorry, I don't know your tank/post history beyond this thread but will have a scan over it later. Don't feed the fish for now, since more food in = more waste out, and fish can go for weeks without food, since they take their body temperature from the water and don't need food to keep their body temp up like us mammals do. So, fasting them for a few days won't harm them, and will give the bacteria time to catch up.

You've shown that you have both types of bacteria, so you're closer to being there than you think! I know all the water changes gets old after a while, but it really is temporary, you'll get through it! Once things settle in and the tank gets established, once per week changes are usually enough, depending on tank size and stocking of course.

Poor plant does look a bit battered! But will hopefully perk up in the tank. Some of those lower leaves do look a bit like water wisteria, so it might be, but the plant being a bit battered makes it tough to tell. It should perk up now it's in the tank, and plants help to process ammonia, so this one and the water lettuce should help too, gotta be patient.

If the suspected water wisteria doesn't perk up though and starts to look as though it might be dying, send a photo for us to check, since dying plant matter can also release ammonia. Unlikely to be a problem, and doesn't mean the plant can't be saved so don't be too quick to remove it, let us check it first, since sometimes trimming and removing the dead/dying parts is enough and they can be removed, then the rest of the plant flourishes. Not likely to be a problem, but wanted to let you know, just in case!

I've got a 120 litre tank and in there I've got:

2 weather loach (Larry and Lola) both extremely friendly, like to sit on my hand if it's in the tank.
1 African dwarf frog (Freddy) freda died the other day, was 2.
5 guppies
6 neon tetras
5 lightening tetras
4 what look like tiger barbs but are smaller and friendly.
2 sword tails
1 pleco which died the other day.

So there was 27 fish in there, but now down to 25, I always believed 1cm of fish to 1 litre of water, so not fully stocked, but had no intentions of adding any more fish.

I do want to replace what I've lost, but not until the water is right.

I have the Dr Tim's one and only arriving today, I'll do a water change and then throw the whole bottle in the tank, so hopefully that will help out.

 

[Essjay]

I assume this a a fish-in cycle? Or did you do a fishless cycle with ammonia first? For fish-in cycling it is recommended to start with just a few fish and build the numbers up slowly so the bacteria can keep up.


The nitrite level going up isn't because the API stuff is wearing off because testers can still read detoxified ammonia and nitrite. It's because the fish are excreting ammonia and the ammonia eaters are turning into nitrite and you don't have enough nitrite eaters yet to keep up with the amount of nitrite the ammonia eaters are making.

 

[Goose3080]

I assume this a a fish-in cycle? Or did you do a fishless cycle with ammonia first? For fish-in cycling it is recommended to start with just a few fish and build the numbers up slowly so the bacteria can keep up.


The nitrite level going up isn't because the API stuff is wearing off because testers can still read detoxified ammonia and nitrite. It's because the fish are excreting ammonia and the ammonia eaters are turning into nitrite and you don't have enough nitrite eaters yet to keep up with the amount of nitrite the ammonia eaters are making.

Yes fish in cycle, however, for weeks I only had the pleco and 6 neon tetras then like you said, slowly added more fish.

The tank was cycled, then the filter broke, the filter was an IF-700+, I was having to clean the sponge on that every week when I did my water changes as it clogged up easily, the new one is an external filter, so way bigger, and in turn, 4 different grades of large sponges in it and some plastic looking bio balls in it, I'm guessing theres just not enough nitrite eaters in that little sponge I put into the new filter.

 

[Essjay]

Ah sorry I forgot, you did say that about the filter breaking down

Remind me, did you put all the old media into the new filter?

 

[Goose3080]

Ah sorry I forgot, you did say that about the filter breaking down

Remind me, did you put all the old media into the new filter?

Yes I did, but all in all it probably only about 10% of the filters which are in the new filter if that makes sense, there's that many of them, I cut it up and put it in between the midium and fine sponges in the new one.

 

[Essjay]

Using all the old media means you kept just about all the bacteria you had, only losing the few in the biofilm on the casing.

It looks like something upset the nitrite eaters so now it's question of growing more. Since every 1 ppm ammonia made by the fish is turned into 2.7 ppm nitrite by the ammonia eaters you must have a good number of nitrite eaters or your readings would be getting a lot higher than they are between water changes.

 

[Goose3080]

Using all the old media means you kept just about all the bacteria you had, only losing the few in the biofilm on the casing.

It looks like something upset the nitrite eaters so now it's question of growing more. Since every 1 ppm ammonia made by the fish is turned into 2.7 ppm nitrite by the ammonia eaters you must have a good number of nitrite eaters or your readings would be getting a lot higher than they are between water changes.

That's good to know, I think if I stopped doing daily water changes it would rocket, but for now the water changes are sort of keeping on top of things, I've done one this morning which halved that 1ppm, I'll do a further change tonight and then throw in that Dr Tim's which you mentioned, should hopefully give things a boost.

 

[Goose3080]

Using all the old media means you kept just about all the bacteria you had, only losing the few in the biofilm on the casing.

It looks like something upset the nitrite eaters so now it's question of growing more. Since every 1 ppm ammonia made by the fish is turned into 2.7 ppm nitrite by the ammonia eaters you must have a good number of nitrite eaters or your readings would be getting a lot higher than they are between water changes.

Ive just completed a 30% water change, when this Dr Tims arrives, shall I put it in the tank or put it in the filter ?

 

[Essjay]

I would go with what the instructions say.

It won't be an instant fix but it will be faster than without it.

 

[Back in the fold]

Now I'm no scientist mind you so take this with a grain of salt.
What is happening in this process is that one thing starts the ball rolling and then something else comes into play. Usually the fish live and thrive but sometimes they get sickly and begin dying off. When that happens you may assume that something went wrong.

 

[Goose3080]

I would go with what the instructions say.

It won't be an instant fix but it will be faster than without it.

Thanks, just did the 2nd water change, had to take the filter apart to take a part of it out as per the instructions, the very very fine white part of the filter needs to be removed for 48 hours, I thought whilst I had it apart id take some pictures to show you old media vs new, the stack of 4 sponges and the floating black balls are the new media, the old media is the 2 small pieces in the other picture (cut in half) and about 5 or 6 tiny brown bio balls, you can just about see one floating in the bucket with the other new bio balls.

The Dr Tims went in the main tank, I take it I cant really do any water changes for a couple of days now ? otherwise wont I also be taking this out of the tank ?

 

[Goose3080]

Getting there........finally.....phew, thank you guys and gals so much for your help, especially @Essjay @Rocky998

 

[Essjay]

Good to see that blue nitrite test


Keep an eye on things for a few days yet.

 

[Rocky998]

That's great to see! Nice work!
Like essjay said, keep an eye on it for a bit