Can Bettas live with other fish?

[connorlindeman]

This subject has been discussed on this forum for the past 3 days almost non-stop! I think that all that can be said has been said

 

[Byron]

wow! how small was the neon or how big was the betta?

You expect me to remember something from 50+ years ago? [laughing]. I can see it clearly though, the neon was half sticking out of the betta for several minutes, and the betta ate all of it, and the neons were gone in several days.

 

[connorlindeman]

You expect me to remember something from 50+ years ago? [laughing]. I can see it clearly though, the neon was half sticking out of the betta for several minutes, and the betta ate all of it, and the neons were gone in several days.

wow, that is crazy! I guess it just slowly digested the neon similar to when a snake swallows something too large to fit?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

This controversy is messed up.
[...]
but I still can't believe that people are so close-minded on this topic.

This tactic is hypocritical both in political debate, and in ethical questions like these. It's a petty, childish attempt at insulting the people you disagree with, while elevating yourself as above them somehow because you believe that you're in the right. So you call them close minded or small minded because they have a different opinion.

It wouldn't be a nice debate tactic if I took the same tone and called you recklessly cruel and selfish for forcing bettas to live in a way that's unnatural for them, would it?

What is the "open-minded" way you'd have us post? Tell them "it's fine, no worries! You can totally mix them." With no warning about how they live in the wild and how they can single-handedly wipe out a tank overnight should they choose? No no, that would be messed up and close-minded of us!

In the long rant in between those two points, I didn't see a single benefit mentioned for either the betta, or the community fish. Just a lot of things you've tried to do to mitigate the inherent risks involved, including trying to change the very nature of bettas themselves via selective breeding. But not one point says that mix them in community tanks because it's good for the bettas, or good for the other tankmates.
So you haven't refuted any of my or @Byron 's points, and the fact stands that you're mixing them for your own benefit, and not because the fish want or need it. At least admit that.

 

[connorlindeman]

This tactic is hypocritical both in political debate, and in ethical questions like these. It's a petty, childish attempt at insulting the people you disagree with, while elevating yourself as above them somehow because you believe that you're in the right. So you call them close minded or small minded because they have a different opinion.

It wouldn't be a nice debate tactic if I took the same tone and called you recklessly cruel and selfish for forcing bettas to live in a way that's unnatural for them, would it?

What is the "open-minded" way you'd have us post? Tell them "it's fine, no worries! You can totally mix them." With no warning about how they live in the wild and how they can single-handedly wipe out a tank overnight should they choose? No no, that would be messed up and close-minded of us!

In the long rant in between those two points, I didn't see a single benefit mentioned for either the betta, or the community fish. Just a lot of things you've tried to do to mitigate the inherent risks involved, including trying to change the very nature of bettas themselves via selective breeding. But not one point says that mix them in community tanks because it's good for the bettas, or good for the other tankmates.
So you haven't refuted any of my or @Byron 's points, and the fact stands that you're mixing them for your own benefit, and not because the fish want or need it. At least admit that.

Very well said.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

This controversy is messed up. When I add a betta to a community I float him in a 1-gallon tank and watch his reactions towards other fish. if he's aggressive I always have a spare tank. In my 20 long planted tank, I have kuhli loaches, 1 male dwarf gourami, a betta, and I also move my guppy fry in as well. this tank has been stocked for a year now with no foul play. when I breed bettas I go for the personality in specific, so I can have optimal tank mates. I'd also like to add that not every betta genus is aggressive, I've discovered that my male alien betta has no aggression to my smaller neons or corys. I'm aware of the "signals" a betta sends out but I do slightly larger water changes than expected when housing males with others. I'm willing to believe that it helps keep stress levels down in the community. I appreciate the wearyness of people and bettas but I still can't believe that people are so close-minded on this topic.

Something I'd like you to note; I didn't reply and argue against anyone else who says they keep bettas with other tankmates. I simply stated by own thoughts on the topic and left. The only reason I replied to you, is to refute your petty insults towards anyone who disagrees with you.


This topic comes up often on this board, and people should be free to share their thoughts. No matter how passionate you are about the topic, you'd earn more respect if you argued points factually without resorting to cheap insults thrown at people with a different take.

 

[itiwhetu]

don't corys stay below?

They periodically come to the surface which will annoy the Betta

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I've seen videos online saying they can live with fish like neon tetras or Corydoras and lots of other fish but I've also seen videos and people saying the opposite. Right now I have a betta occupying a 20 gallon tall tank by himself and was thinking of adding some neon tetras or endlers to add some more movement but now I'm thinking should I just put the betta in a 5/10 gallon and just make the 20 gallon a dedicated community tank or just add the neons.

This controversy is messed up. When I add a betta to a community I float him in a 1-gallon tank and watch his reactions towards other fish. if he's aggressive I always have a spare tank. In my 20 long planted tank, I have kuhli loaches, 1 male dwarf gourami, a betta, and I also move my guppy fry in as well.

Just a quick note to both of you that bettas and guppies or endlers shouldn't be mixed. Not only because of the aggression issue, but guppies and endlers are hard water fish and need a higher GH than bettas do. Tetra and bettas are soft water fish, but the livebearers needing hard water aren't a good mix with either netra or bettas, despite many places suggesting them as tankmates(!!); because of the GH issue. Even though tetra and endlers get along okay, they have different water requirements. Seriously Fish is a fantastic, reliable resource for fish profiles, written by scientists and experts, and listing all of the major requirements for most any species in the hobby. Always research the species you plan to get before buying, and be wary of the source.

Endlers: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/poecilia-wingei/
Guppies: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/poecilia-reticulata/
Neons: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/paracheirodon-innesi/
Bettas: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/betta-splendens/
(The most common subspecies in the hobby linked).

Post #9 ( @AdoraBelle Dearheart ) is bang on the mark.

Thank you - a great deal of that is thanks to you, and your posts. Your wisdom and experience has taught me a great deal, and inspired so much of my own research and tank planning!
But I don't want you or anyone else to think I'm just repeating your thoughts and ideas... while I admire and agree with almost everything I've seen you say, lol, I don't accept ideas automatically, and just because a lot of our philosophy aligns, doesn't mean we agree on everything or I just adopt positions without doing my own research.
Reading your posts about bettas and about the nature of fish keeping sent me off looking into how bettas really live in the wild, along with other fish, and challenged my thoughts about our responsibilities as fish keepers to meet as many of the fishes needs as we can, including replicating their natural environments to the best of our abilities. And the times when we have to compromise those principles in the best interests of an individual fish - like with a rescued or inherited fish, where changing some aspects of their environment may be worse for the fish than keeping them in imperfect conditions.

The thought about any changes or plans making me think "who does this benefit?" is my own though. It helps me to boil it down that way sometimes. At the end of the day if it doesn't benefit the fish in any way, or is potentially harmful, then it would violate my own ethics, and I've always applied the same principle with my other pets.

Betta splendens even if are not a community tank fish, with the right choice of stocking do just fine.. and I believe that enjoy more space even if not active. In my experience in a well planted tank, not overstocked and no fin nippers (peaceful tetras are OK for example) they thrive.
That’s my red betta

Your tank, fish and plants are absolutely beautiful! Truly stunning, and I'd love to see more photos and find out more about how you maintain the plants/water conditions etc, if you have a suitable thread for that You really should enter that tank in a tank of the month contest, don't you think, @Fishmanic?

 

[TTboy79]

Just a quick note to both of you that bettas and guppies or endlers shouldn't be mixed. Not only because of the aggression issue, but guppies and endlers are hard water fish and need a higher GH than bettas do. Tetra and bettas are soft water fish, but the livebearers needing hard water aren't a good mix with either netra or bettas, despite many places suggesting them as tankmates(!!); because of the GH issue. Even though tetra and endlers get along okay, they have different water requirements. Seriously Fish is a fantastic, reliable resource for fish profiles, written by scientists and experts, and listing all of the major requirements for most any species in the hobby. Always research the species you plan to get before buying, and be wary of the source.

Endlers: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/poecilia-wingei/
Guppies: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/poecilia-reticulata/
Neons: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/paracheirodon-innesi/
Bettas: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/betta-splendens/
(The most common subspecies in the hobby linked).

Thank you - a great deal of that is thanks to you, and your posts. Your wisdom and experience has taught me a great deal, and inspired so much of my own research and tank planning!
But I don't want you or anyone else to think I'm just repeating your thoughts and ideas... while I admire and agree with almost everything I've seen you say, lol, I don't accept ideas automatically, and just because a lot of our philosophy aligns, doesn't mean we agree on everything or I just adopt positions without doing my own research.
Reading your posts about bettas and about the nature of fish keeping sent me off looking into how bettas really live in the wild, along with other fish, and challenged my thoughts about our responsibilities as fish keepers to meet as many of the fishes needs as we can, including replicating their natural environments to the best of our abilities. And the times when we have to compromise those principles in the best interests of an individual fish - like with a rescued or inherited fish, where changing some aspects of their environment may be worse for the fish than keeping them in imperfect conditions.

The thought about any changes or plans making me think "who does this benefit?" is my own though. It helps me to boil it down that way sometimes. At the end of the day if it doesn't benefit the fish in any way, or is potentially harmful, then it would violate my own ethics, and I've always applied the same principle with my other pets.



Your tank, fish and plants are absolutely beautiful! Truly stunning, and I'd love to see more photos and find out more about how you maintain the plants/water conditions etc, if you have a suitable thread for that You really should enter that tank in a tank of the month contest, don't you think, @Fishmanic?

Me? Oh thank you! I don’t know, maybe When there’s a 15gal contest I can try, I’m setting up another tank same size.
By the way, I remember when I was a teen in my first tank a betta had bitten off the tail of a fancy guppy.. stocking advised by the LFS . Better forums like these to share info otherwise people would put mbuna in 15 gallons like one of my neighbours one did thanks to the same greedy LFS..