Camallanus? worm help, please!

[Essjay]

I know I have only two tanks while you have more, but I have 2 sets of equipment from buckets to siphons to nets and I use one set per tank. I can quite see that someone with many tanks would have nowhere to store that many sets of equipment though.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I know I have only two tanks while you have more, but I have 2 sets of equipment from buckets to siphons to nets and I use one set per tank. I can quite see that someone with many tanks would have nowhere to store that many sets of equipment though.

You're right that it would make sense to do that, seems like the safest practice, and buckets/nets/syphons aren't expensive either. It's just so easy to get complacent, especially with the two tanks that are right next to each other and the same size, so I use the same syphon. Or easy to not even think about grabbing my good long handled algae scraper to reach the back on the 55 gallon yesterday, before I realised there was a health problem going on in my guppy tank.

In reality, separate sets doesn't really work here. I move plants from my tanks to the 55 gallon, I regularly bag up young fish from all three tanks to go to the LFS, or move young platy or molly fry to my guppy grow out tank so they're easier to bag on LFS morning, rather than trying to grab the right ones out of the crowded 55 gallon the morning of. I can't really afford to have an aquascaping tool set for each tank. So when plants and fish move between tanks anyway, it seems silly to worry about the bucket. Oh man, something else I shouldn't do - when I got new shrimp last week, I floated the bag to temp acclimate to my shrimp tank while I set up the equipment to drip acclimate them in a bucket. Just having the bag from the fish store that was in their tank water floating in my tank is a contamination risk, but I bet we've all done it!

I think for now, I'll treat all the tanks for both kinds of worms, and sterlise equipment right after adding first dose. keep to separate equipment for now until treatment is over at the least. Then sterilise it all again, and mark one set as quarantine tank use only. I can certainly isolate any new fish and plants that come in and have one set that never gets used on any other tanks, even if other buckets and stuff gets shared between the main tanks. Since all the tanks will have been treated, that will hopefully work. So thank you for that idea, I do need to get better at quarantine and cross contamination.

 

[Essjay]

That does sound like a plan - one set for quarantine and one set for the rest.

What made me use 2 sets is when I had three tanks and one had shrimps as well as fish. I knew that it would be difficult to treat the tank with shrimps if the fish caught something from another tank, so originally I had one set for the tank with shrimps and the other set for the 180 litre and the small tank.

 

[Stefan3289]

Did the problem start when you added the new shrimp and plants?

 

[Essjay]

Who, me or AdoraBelle Dearheart?

In my case some new fish had camallanus worms and I didn't quarantine them Luckily they were in a tank without shrimps and was already using different equipment.

 

[Stefan3289]

AdoraBelle Dearheart

I was thinking it might not hurt to go back where you got the shrimp and see if the tank you got them from is under quarantine. You could ask what they are treating it with?
I know when I got one of my EBA’s turns out the tank was put into quarantine 2 days later and I had to treat my cichlid tank

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Did the problem start when you added the new shrimp and plants?

I know and understand the thinking there Not in my case this time, since I'd moved the guppies into the quarantine tank before I moved new shrimp into shrimp tank, and it's the guppies showing signs. At my LFS his shrimp tanks run on their own individual sponge filters rather than a shared system, and I snagged the last four baby blue shrimp that had been born in there, so he hasn't re-stocked it recently. I definitely shouldn't have floated the bag to temp acclimate it though, that was silly.

I had lost a few fry in that age range before anything new came in, so I think my guppies have been carrying a worm burden for a while, and I missed the signs with the odd lost fry, and only really saw it because I lost more fry in a short space of time, and an adult got sick. Maybe the stress of being caught and moved made it harder for them, or it has just reached the point where there are so many worms, even the adults are struggling. Guppies can live with worms for a long time before really showing signs of it, so I think that's what's been going on this time.

I had to stop myself from buying the solitary otocinclus he had left, because he warned me that he was treating ich in that tank. I'm sorry about your cichlids, did they recover well after treatment?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I'm sorry, I still need more help.

Guppies have been in the eSHa-ndx treated tank for around 40 hours now. I did see the white stringy poop thing mentioned above on the one sickly looking adult guppy, and two that were floating/on the floor of the tank. She had the same type of string thing today. But she still looks sickly. Tail dropping, and swimmingly lethargically unless I'm feeding the tank, when she perks up a bit.

So I don't think the ndx has worked, at least this go round. I have ordered the gdex for flatworms, how long should I wait before trying this treatment? I had planned to wait and do the full 2-3 courses of ndx, then give them time to recover from the meds before starting the course of gdex, but I don't think that she will hang on that long, and I'd hate to lose her. Tempted to give them 24 hours and feed them well/do water changes, then use the gdex after 24 hours, and rotate the treatments. But I don't want to put all of the fish through more than they can handle in an attempt to save this one fish. I could also move and treat the others in the typical weeks apart way, and keep this girl in quarantine for a more intense treatment regime to try to save her, without putting the others through too many treatments too close together?

 

[mbsqw1d]

Is she eating ok? Consider soaking her food in the juice of crushed garlic in the meantime whilst you get your hands on the tapeworm meds. If you haven't seen the red worms protuding then I think its less likely to be the callamanus type?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Is she eating ok? Consider soaking her food in the juice of crushed garlic in the meantime whilst you get your hands on the tapeworm meds. If you haven't seen the red worms protuding then I think its less likely to be the callamanus type?

Will definitely do the garlic thing, thank you!
Yep, I'm suspecting that there are some type of flatworms going on too. I started with the ndx since I haven't been able to see any actual worms of either type, so it's even possible that it isn't worms at all. However, having been reading up, the symptoms do fit for worms, and it seems to be almost guaranteed that farm raised livebearers are exposed to and carrying both round and flatworms. Since I have guppies and the 55 gallon has platies and mollies, all farm raised and purchased from LFS, it seems as though I should have been worming all of them as a matter of course when I first bought them. I think I need to treat all three tanks currently set up with both ndx and gdex.

I trust the folks on WWM, it's written by experts, and I just read this: "Levamisole is a good choice here: relatively safe, and should not, in itself, cause stress or harm to your fish, assuming it's used as directed."

So perhaps dosing the gdex even quite soon after using the levamisole won't be too hard on them?

 

[Essjay]

You need to do the 2 courses of ndx. If the fish do have camallanus worms, you don't want it coming back. The ndx will kill any round worms in the fish now but not the eggs in the water. The fish will then eat the eggs and become re-infected. The second dose 14 days after the first is to kill the newly hatched worms from the eggs they've eaten after the first dose - before this second batch get old enough to lay their own eggs.

The ndx instructions say to do a water change 24 hours after dosing. After the second dose, do a really big water change and maybe run some carbon before using the gdex.
gdex is a bit more complicated to dose being a several day course with different amounts on each day. For certain types of flat worm, it also needs a second course of treatment.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

You need to do the 2 courses of ndx. If the fish do have camallanus worms, you don't want it coming back. The ndx will kill any round worms in the fish now but not the eggs in the water. The fish will then eat the eggs and become re-infected. The second dose 14 days after the first is to kill the newly hatched worms from the eggs they've eaten after the first dose - before this second batch get old enough to lay their own eggs.

The ndx instructions say to do a water change 24 hours after dosing. After the second dose, do a really big water change and maybe run some carbon before using the gdex.
gdex is a bit more complicated to dose being a several day course with different amounts on each day. For certain types of flat worm, it also needs a second course of treatment.

Will do, thank you for the help! I was planning to do the second (and perhaps third) ndx doses, I was just worried that since this female hasn't perked up, that she won't survive a two week wait, then another gap before using the gdex, if she is struggling with flatworms or tapeworms.

So I'm tempted to do the gdex course in the two week gap between ndx doses, and maybe even use the eSHa 2000 at the same time, since it says that can used concurrently, in case there's something bacterial going on, or to help reduce the chance of secondary bacteria infections from the damage worms do to the gut.

I don't want to bombard them with too many meds too close together really, but on the other hand, watching her stuggle for two weeks isn't something I can easily do either

 

[Essjay]

That might well be the best, since you have to leave 14 days between ndx doses and gdex is a 5 day course with a repeat if needed on days 8 to 12.
And the 2000 since worms can damage in the insides of a fish and allow bacteria in.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

That might well be the best, since you have to leave 14 days between ndx doses and gdex is a 5 day course with a repeat if needed on days 8 to 12.
And the 2000 since worms can damage in the insides of a fish and allow bacteria in.

Thank you so much! I would have waited if I had to, but I don't think she at least would make it. She's still eating well, so I'll make sure to do small frequent feedings with a variety of foods to help them battle the worm load/sickness, without polluting the water.

I do want to go ahead and start the first course of gdex (with 2000) during the gap between the first and second ndx dose. Will also make sure to do the repeat doses even if they seem well, I really don't want this coming back again! And with the amount of fish farmed livebearers we have, I should have have medicated while they were quarantined in the first place. Live and learn!
Seems like eSHa products are effective, while not being as harsh and stressful as some other medications can be on fish, so hopefully using the gdex/2000 even quite soon after the ndx should hopefully be okay. Will let you guys know how it goes!

 

[emeraldking]

I would go for Essjay's advice from what I've read overhere...