Camallanus? worm help, please!

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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Request Help Believe my guppies might have worms, had camallanus worms 2-3 months ago, symptoms showing again but haven't seen a worm yet.

Tank size: two 15 gallon tanks, one 55 gallon
pH: 7,6
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: less than 10 in the two 15 gallons, 40ppm in 55 gallon before a 50% water change today.
kH: 10
gH: 15 dH (253ppm)
tank temp: 79 degrees F

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Some guppy fry appear long and thin, not developing as well as most of the fry. Have been losing some fry over the last couple of days. Not the adult fish, and not the newborn or very young fry, but the ones that are between one and a half to two months old seem to be the worst affected. Now an adult guppy has become thin in the last day or two, and today, her tail is drooping. Reminds me very much of how things began when I ended up having camallanus worms a few months ago. The adult female who is struggling gave birth to her first batch of fry earlier this week. Wondering if the worm load is harder on the fry who are old enough for worms to have developed, but aren't as large and robust as the adults, and the one female is weaker having just given birth and struggling with the worm load. Have not yet seen any worms protruding, but it took a long time before I actually saw worms on one fish the last time this happened too. Fish still eating.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: Weekly, between 30-50%.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Plant fertiliser and root tabs sporadically, not recently.

Tank inhabitants: Main tank -cherry shrimp and otos. Quarantine tank (15 gal) 9 adult guppies, few sub adults, many fry were moved into the other day since I'm tearing down tanks to do a new set up. Cycled filters added though, and water test results as above. 55 gallon - mollies, platies, two botia, two bronze cories, some tetra, many fry.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): 4 new shrimp, 4 new plants. Drip acclimated shrimp, did not add shop water to my tanks, but not quarantined.

Exposure to chemicals: No.

Digital photo (include if possible): Terrible light on this quarantine tank so hard to get a good photo, sorry. But posting a before photo of the adult female from a couple of days ago before she dropped her fry compared to today, so you can see the tail drooping at least. Also best shot I could get of long 1-2 month old fry.
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And today:
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I've dosed the guppy/quarantine tank today with eSHa-ndx since I had some left from last time, figured I'd start with that then try the gdx? if it doesn't work. Realising that I'm going to need to treat the otos/shrimp tank and the 55 gallon as well, since I use the same nets/bucket etc between all three tanks. I'm getting paranoid about sterilising things though, especially the plants. I need some guidance please on how to eradicate this stuff, and any eggs, hopefully without losing the plant collection I've been building for the past year. But I want my fish healthy again and don't want this to recur.
 
The rough plan I'm forming is to wait the 24 hours for this dose of eSHa-ndx on the guppy tank to pass, then move guppies back into oto/shrimp tank, which will be contaminated but also needs treating. Then dose that tank and the 55 gal on the same day (maybe after a wait so guppies don't get too stressed from doses too close together?) Leave both tanks untouched for the 24 hours, and in the meantime, sterilise all equipment and spare tanks. - quarantine tank, buckets, syphons, nets, all of it. Bleach, rinse well, declorinator, rinse rinse rinse, declorinator, let dry in the sun. Sterilise quarantine tank and second hand ten gallon. Have a bag of new sand arriving tomorrow, so set up 15 gallon once clean and dry with new sand. Then remove plants from the 15 gallon, bleach dip to kill any eggs, add to "clean" tank. Move shrimp/otos/guppies to clean tank. Feed otos and shrimp more pellets/wafers than usual to make up for clean tank/plants. Strip down and sterilise the original 15 gallon, discard substrate. Re-dose eSHa-ndx after two weeks in both remaining tanks.

Am I thinking in overkill terms? What about filters? I'm less worried about crashing cycles than I am about worms/eggs surviving. I can get a LOT of elodea from the pond and bleach dip it, and quarantine that for a day to check for hydra/damselfly nymphs etc, and stuff tanks with that to help, and do water changes of course. But I think I might be going overboard...
 
I have never had this, and don't want to guess, so I will leave it to those with the experience.
I understand, thank you for all of your very enlightening help on my other posts though! And information you've given on other threads I've read that have taught me a great deal too. Your skills are appreciated.
 
Thank you.

I tagged you partly because I did a forum search for worms, and found an old thread of yours where you linked some research about c.cotti living for some time and spreading even without a host species, when you had camallanus worms in 2018. I think I found it when searching for how to steralise equipment, but I can't seem to find it again now.

Of course, I don't know for sure that it's camallanus this time in my tanks. I just know that it was camallanus before, and because I didn't treat all tanks then, I suspect it wasn't fully eradicated and this is popping back up again now. Since eSHa-ndx treats a few types of intestinal worms and I don't have a definite diagnosis, I figured I'd start there then try the other wormer if it fails. Although it's also possible I misidentified it, and the dnx didn't treat whatever they were carrying. But the worms were white and red and hairbrush like, and the tanks seemed to recover for six months or so after treatment, so I really don't know.

Whatever this is, I don't want to be transferring it to the "new" tanks I'm going to be setting up, so I want to treat this first and sterilise all my equipment so I don't transfer it. I don't really want to transfer shrimp and otos at least to a super clean tank with bleach dipped plants and have a high chance of losing them either though. Now considering waiting on the new set ups until this is definitely identified and treated, moving guppies back with shrimp and otos into that original tank to treat all of them and the 55 gallon, and hopefully stand a better chance of keeping shrimp and otos alive, and riding out any potential crashes in the cycle since it's two established tanks.

That female today is trailing what looks like a small white poop, attached to her by a thin thread, which isn't something I normally see. Saw a couple more thin white bits like that on the floor of the tank/floating, syphoned those out. So I suspect the eSHa-ndx is killing something. She and the others still have good appetites and ate this morning. Colin's old posts say that thin stringy poop usually means worms, but I know this still doesn't tell me what type.

I would really appreciate any feedback from anyone, personal experiences, anything.
 
I'm trying to snag a photo of the worm/poop she's trailing. She isn't posing nicely for a photo op, but I'll keep trying.
 
Of course the act of switching the light to my better light bar spooked them, so she shed part of what she's trailing. Picture that thread you can just about see being twice that length, with a 'normal' looking poop at the end, but white, and that's how it looked earlier.
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@essjay ? Please tell me what you think or what you would do if you believed you had an unidentified worm problem? Colin doesn't seem to be around much at the moment and poor guy will be flooded with help requests when he does come on.

I'm not wanting to go kill or cure by going too scorched earth on my tanks. I think the guppies could handle it, but not my otos and shrimp. On the other hand, I want to be sure that no worms can survive these courses of treatments, and eliminate any cross contamination.

Even if the advice is to just wait until Colin or @emeraldking can give advice, or I see more obvious signs, I'm having to sit on my hands to stop myself from throwing too much at them, the camallanus worms last time clearly traumatised me.
 
I've only ever had camallaus worms in my tank and that's the only one I can identify (red 'bristles' protruding form the anus). At that time, eSHa ndx hadn't been brought out so I used Sera Nematol which did work even though it contains none of the usually recomended meds.

Colin_T tells us that livebearers bred in the far east are usually infected with both round worms (eg camallanus) and flat worms (eg tapeworms) and he recommends treating for both in quarantine.

If it's definitely camallanus worms, eSHa ndx (levamisole) is the one to use. On every tank that could be contaminated as using the same equipment can transfer eggs. If you think it might be tapeworms as well, use eSHa gdex (praziquantel) after the ndx two courses have finished. Or NT Labs Anti-fluke & Wormer (flubendazole) instead as that treats both types of worms.
 
If that pic is showing a worm that is protruding, Ive never identified tapeworm before, but, callamanus are red and dont protrude as far. It also doesnt look like stringy white poo to me, that is normally more inconsistent looking?
 
I've only ever had camallaus worms in my tank and that's the only one I can identify (red 'bristles' protruding form the anus). At that time, eSHa ndx hadn't been brought out so I used Sera Nematol which did work even though it contains none of the usually recomended meds.

Colin_T tells us that livebearers bred in the far east are usually infected with both round worms (eg camallanus) and flat worms (eg tapeworms) and he recommends treating for both in quarantine.

If it's definitely camallanus worms, eSHa ndx (levamisole) is the one to use. On every tank that could be contaminated as using the same equipment can transfer eggs. If you think it might be tapeworms as well, use eSHa gdex (praziquantel) after the ndx two courses have finished. Or NT Labs Anti-fluke & Wormer (flubendazole) instead as that treats both types of worms.
Thank you so so much! I really just needed to hear a decent plan for going forward from someone else, so I didn't just go off of my own inexperienced new hobbyist plan!

Yes, these were pet store guppies, and mollies and platies in the 55 gallon, and came from fish farms abroad, but don't know where. I wormed the guppies when I first got them just using a general wormer from the LFS, but apparently it doesn't have the right ingredients to treat things like camallanus, and the 55 hasn't been wormed but has shared equipment.

I'm using the ndx right now since I can't ID the worms yet, but the symptoms seem to fit for worms, and I had half a bottle of ndx left anyway from the camallanus. Made sense to start there, then try the gdx after this course, to make sure it's killed any worms of either type in both tanks, start from scratch, so to speak, since I don't know what the livebearers in my dad's tank could be carrying, and it sounds like it could even be either round or tape, or even be both. So I'm happy to have that plan confirmed by you!


Now I need to find info on how to sterilise tanks, nets, syphons, buckets, and empty tanks. And plants. I'd hate to finish both treatments and have sterilised everything, only for some eggs to have survived on my plants and then move into the new tank set ups. Have ordered some more ndx and some gdx.
 
If that pic is showing a worm that is protruding, Ive never identified tapeworm before, but, callamanus are red and dont protrude as far. It also doesnt look like stringy white poo to me, that is normally more inconsistent looking?
I don't really know what it is I'm seeing either, whether it's a stingy white poop (there was a white poop shape hanging on the end of that stingy thing before, I just couldn't get a photo) or if it's the remains of some type of worm. Since I took this photo more than 12 hours after dosing the tank with ndx, it could be a dead worm of some type, or just stringy poo, I don't know. It's not something I normally see. The bits I saw floating were also inconsistent. White, a bit more poop shaped joined by a thin stingy bit, then another more poop shaped bit etc. So maybe flatworms/tapeworms are more likely this time.

When this happened before, (skinny but eating fish, lethargic swimming, losing fry in a certain age range and then adults) I definitely saw camallanus worms protruding from a fish. Bunch of short worms sticking out, most white but some red, looked like battered paintbrush bristles sticking out, which only seemed to match photos of camallanus. My mind went to camallanus first this time, since I didn't treat all the tanks last time, but it could be any type of worm I think. Going to use the two treatments that treat roundworms and tapeworms to be sure I've got whatever it is.
 

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