Buying Ro Water Vs Treating Tap Water

[CriX098]

Hi.

Well, I may have to begin actually purchasing RO water from my LFS... an idea I am not fond of. My tap water is very alkaline around 8.2 and I cannot seem to lower it. I have the chemicals, and my test kits are not expired... the water simply doesn't change it seems! I read that water hardness can resist the effects of some pH adjusting formulas but the brand new test strips I have indicate that my water is soft.

I'm removing a lot of the plants (plastic) to make the task of vaccuming the substrate easier and more effective.... because my other major problem is Nitrite. This of course is the primary issue although I am able to control it with large water changes. I've reduced the amount I feed the fish and I made sure to do a thorough vaccuming and water changes.

I'm starting to wonder now... maybe the Nitryfying Bacteria from SuperBac didn't work?? Good thing I'm starting off with a 10g freshwater with inexpensive small fish. I should well prepared for a tropical salt water tank if I can make this tank run for 6 months without any losses.

 

[Underwurlde]

1) Don't use test strips if I were you. They are crapola. Use the drop checkers.

2) If you are seeing Nitrite then a.) your filter is not cycled or b.) you are way over-stocked.

So, have you cycled your tank. Don't want to sound condescending, but if answering 'yes', how did you cycle your filter and how then did you know it was cycled?

We're here to help of course,

Regards,

Andy

 

[NoRp]

sounds like he didnt cycle it to me =[
i should post a link to the pined topic but i think he will be able to find it

CriX098
my advice to you would be go find the pinned article on cycling.

but other than that if u can get some filter media from a friends tank that could solve your problem quick also

sorry if im blunt but ppl realy should read more before starting out, if you know about RO then surly you know how to cycle a tank.
again sorry rant over

enjoy your fish!

 

[CriX098]

Nooo, I don't want to be "that guy." I read so much before starting my tank and I did indeed cycle the tank. If you look up some posts a couple weeks ago I was applying the nitrifying bacteria and dripping in ammonia and monitoring the nitrite and nitrate. The high nitrite levels I think are from over feeding and not having any plecos to clean the bottom since I hadn't actually vacuumed the substrate at all during the first couple weeks. So I think it is a buildup of food and poo that was causing the high nitrites.

 

[reefer_ron]

Crix,

What part of the country are you in? In some parts of the country the tap water is so clean that it contains no phosphate or necessary trace elements. I live in Northern California (Dublin) and this happened to me. I read a dead zero phosphate out of the tap which means that nitrifying bacteria (SuperBac or established the long way) won't function. The SuperBac brochure he gave me says there must be at least .02ppm of phosphate present for nitrifying bacteria to convert.

He gave me a phosphate buffer and it jump started immediately.

Hi.

Well, I may have to begin actually purchasing RO water from my LFS... an idea I am not fond of. My tap water is very alkaline around 8.2 and I cannot seem to lower it. I have the chemicals, and my test kits are not expired... the water simply doesn't change it seems! I read that water hardness can resist the effects of some pH adjusting formulas but the brand new test strips I have indicate that my water is soft.

I'm removing a lot of the plants (plastic) to make the task of vaccuming the substrate easier and more effective.... because my other major problem is Nitrite. This of course is the primary issue although I am able to control it with large water changes. I've reduced the amount I feed the fish and I made sure to do a thorough vaccuming and water changes.

I'm starting to wonder now... maybe the Nitryfying Bacteria from SuperBac didn't work?? Good thing I'm starting off with a 10g freshwater with inexpensive small fish. I should well prepared for a tropical salt water tank if I can make this tank run for 6 months without any losses.

 

[dthoffsett]

As for your PH, unless you are keeping some wild caught species that need a certain PH don't mess with it. Most fish can easily adjust to different PH levels and it's much better to have your PH outside of the "ideal" range than to try and change it. A fluctuating PH is very stressful for your fish.

To help you with your nitrite problem, what's your current stocking, and how often/much do you feed.
Also, how long has the tank been set up?



On a side note, once you get the hang of keeping fish and you decide to upgrade to a 55gal or larger (and believe me, you will) you might consider keeping mbuna (rock-dwelling cichlids from Lake Malawi, Africa).

 

[Mikaila31]

I also don't think your tank is cycled . Also are you using pure RO water? If you are I don't think that good. I have never dealt with RO personally, but I think you are suppose to mix it with the tap water. I have read a couple times that pure RO water is bad for fish, I'm not sure why though. Perhaps someone else can tell us .

 

[dthoffsett]

I also don't think your tank is cycled . Also are you using pure RO water? If you are I don't think that good. I have never dealt with RO personally, but I think you are suppose to mix it with the tap water. I have read a couple times that pure RO water is bad for fish, I'm not sure why though. Perhaps someone else can tell us .

He said in the original post he was thinking he needed to start buying RO water, not that he was using it yet. However, you are correct that pure RO was isn't good for the fish, the reason being the filtration process strips the water of almost all minerals making it very unstable PH wise. So mixing with tap water helps to add some minerals back, but you can also use commercial additives as well. Marine keepers use RO water and the salt mix adds the minerals needed.

 

[thewindowwoman]

I am a window cleaner and use large amounts of pure RO water for work. When I started using it for the fish, I thought it would be great. My one year old, large healthy angels died within two weeks. Only mollies survived. I had to pretty much restock. Call me stupid but I didn't attribute the deaths to the water.

When I bought new fish they died. Started using my very hard tap water and the fish now live. Unless you have marine where you need ro to top up etc without changing the water composition don't go with RO.

 

[the biffster]

i have heard that pure RO water is bad to it as to be mixed with tap water or RO mineral replacement additive
i myself have got a koi tap water filter with a .05 micron sediment filter and a carbon block this is all you need draw the
water from the filter and let it stand with a heater and air stone overnight or if you are like me top up using water
strait from the filter and use a small amount of dechlorinator when i do this it all ways set my corys of breeding
and my kribs i was also told by an old time fish keeper that if you can not get your pH down a few small drops of
normal household vinegar will do the trick i have used it before but use CAUTION as it can drop the pH rather sharpish
also check what rock work and gravel you have as this can alter your pH you can check rock work with vinegar if it fizzes
it is know good for the tank coral sand and gravel should only be used in marine tanks or rift tanks or in external filter for
people who have problems with low pH any way hope this helps

good luck biff

 

[Matt_northants]

The with RO which isnt remineralized is that its so pure it will pull the minerals out of your substrate/decor, due to osmotic pressure. And during water changes you keep on replacing the old remineralized water with pure water once all of the minerals have been leached out of substrate/decor your fish are next. I use RO but then I remineralize it and drop it to pH6.2 before using it.

 

[ChuckV]

I use RO/DI water mixed 50/50 with tap water. The RO/DI water is devoid of many electrolytes
that the fish need. Namely Ca++ and Mg++. By mixing it with tap water I am putting back in
the electrolytes. Over time pure RO/DI water will adversly affect the fish. Not good!!

My RO/DI water has a ph at about 6.4 with a 0 KH. My tap water has a ph of 8.2-8.4
with a KH of 200. After mixing I come up with a ph of 7.4 and a KH of 100 without
addition of any chemicals. SAll I add to my water is aquarium salt again to replce
some of the Ca++ and MG++.

 

[rabbut]

Pure RO is dangerous to fish, as it contains no minerals. It will not remove minerals from decor or fish, as Matt_northants surgested, but he is correct in saying osmotic pressure is the problem. Fish use osmotic pressure to remove toxins from their gills. The water these toxins are being expelled into must have a hardness greater than that of the cells of the fish. The fish are able to maintain all their minerals, even in 100% pure water, which RO is not. The greater the hardness of the surrounding water the quicker the fish are able to remove toxins from their body. RO does not have sufficient hardness for the fish to remove toxins at the same rate they produce them, therefore, they poison themselves to death, as they are unable to remove sufficent toxins.

Hope that wasn't too in-deapth for all other members

The key to a healthy aquarium is stability. It is better for the pH to be constant, than it is for it to fluctuate. I would surgest sticking to tap water to keep things simple, and if your realy conserned about the high pH, look at fish like mbuna, that would prefur a pH in this ball park.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[ChuckV]

Rabbut you are absolutely correct!! I am weaning myself off RO water. Right now I am using 50% RO and 50% soft water.

I will go to 100% non softened water. Where the problem lies is when one reads about the specific likes
and dislikes of specif fish. Some like soft water while others like a ph of 6.5.

My water will be about 7.4-7.6 and very GH hard. The only other way to change this is by using
chemicals which I do not like to do.

I will change over slowly and I am sure the fish will adapt.

I have been using a double whammy in that I use 50% RO/DI water and 50% water
from my water softner. It meets all the requirements in that it is soft water etc
but the numbers are decieving because the water I am using contains no minerals at all.

I have been adding salt but I do not think that is enough.

This may be the answer to my previously addressed question as to why my corys are losing fins etc.
It very well may be that my water quality is no good and corys are a "warning sign" of poor water quality.

The water I have been using is 100% pure but it is really not water.

Pure RO is dangerous to fish, as it contains no minerals. It will not remove minerals from decor or fish, as Matt_northants surgested, but he is correct in saying osmotic pressure is the problem. Fish use osmotic pressure to remove toxins from their gills. The water these toxins are being expelled into must have a hardness greater than that of the cells of the fish. The fish are able to maintain all their minerals, even in 100% pure water, which RO is not. The greater the hardness of the surrounding water the quicker the fish are able to remove toxins from their body. RO does not have sufficient hardness for the fish to remove toxins at the same rate they produce them, therefore, they poison themselves to death, as they are unable to remove sufficent toxins.

Hope that wasn't too in-deapth for all other members

The key to a healthy aquarium is stability. It is better for the pH to be constant, than it is for it to fluctuate. I would surgest sticking to tap water to keep things simple, and if your realy conserned about the high pH, look at fish like mbuna, that would prefur a pH in this ball park.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Matt_northants]

Pure RO is dangerous to fish, as it contains no minerals. It will not remove minerals from decor or fish, as Matt_northants surgested, but he is correct in saying osmotic pressure is the problem. Fish use osmotic pressure to remove toxins from their gills. The water these toxins are being expelled into must have a hardness greater than that of the cells of the fish. The fish are able to maintain all their minerals, even in 100% pure water, which RO is not. The greater the hardness of the surrounding water the quicker the fish are able to remove toxins from their body. RO does not have sufficient hardness for the fish to remove toxins at the same rate they produce them, therefore, they poison themselves to death, as they are unable to remove sufficent toxins.

Hope that wasn't too in-deapth for all other members

The key to a healthy aquarium is stability. It is better for the pH to be constant, than it is for it to fluctuate. I would surgest sticking to tap water to keep things simple, and if your realy conserned about the high pH, look at fish like mbuna, that would prefur a pH in this ball park.

HTH
Rabbut

Pure RO will leach minerals form decor and fish, if you think about all water will strip water soluble minerals. This is why water in Malawi is hard, the surrounding rocks contain water soluble minerals and these are pulled into the water. On the other hand the water in black water streams is acidic as there aren't the large amount of rocks, so instead the water dissolves the acids created by decomposition. Water is known as a Universal Solvent, as it can dissolve a large amount of chemicals. This is due to the fact of its small size and the lone pair of electrons on the oxygen atom. These allow the water to form a matrix around a polar or ionic molecule, and this leads to a very stable and therefore low energy solution. This is why water temp increases when salt is dissolved in it as the latent heat of crystallisation is released as it is no longer needed, which is why salt melts ice. However this also works both ways and is why saltwater doesnt freeze at 0. Its all about stability.