broke all rules

[nicklfire]

Well i broke all the rules,
i just got a tank 2 days ago, nice little 10 gallon, got all my equiptment, got 6 tiger barbs. Got home.. setup the tank, and added some community control solution so it makes it easier to add fish after setting up tank, didnt do a cycle. 15 minutes after adding the fish the water was at 76F So i was like ok..... added the 6 tiger barbs, watched them for a little bit.... 2 days later (today) bought a external filter and a albino cory catfish and stuck it in. This is what happens when you get too impatient with a tank, i hope i get lucky.

I gues the real importance here is amionia and nitrate, so i'm guessing i should replace 10% of water daily to keep the cycle going.

hope that little cory dosnt die cause of no build up food source. O and i'm feeding he fish about 3 times a day( dunno if that's overfeeding but i got 7 fish ) I'm going out to buy some pellets for that cory so they will sink and he'll have somthing to eat.

Any suggestions on keeping them alive and a healthy tank.

 

[fishdudein]

Nicklfire, unless your fish are malnourished to begin with, there is no need to be feeding them 3 times a day at this point. Once your filtration is up and running and your tank has cycled, 3 small feedings a day would be OK (but not necessary). Keep in mind , that a fish's stomach is only about as big as its eyeball (maybe not scientifically correct, but this will help you gauge how much to feed). Getting all your fish through the cycling process will be the tricky part...there are others here who can talk you through that better than I can. But at this stage, please don't overfeed, better to have the fish a little hungry!

 

[nicklfire]

ok , but will the catfish be ok ?
anymore inp ut would be great

 

[staredecisis]

Well, all the advice I have for this situation is, buy a water test kit. 25 strips for $12.99. Test your water every other day, starting in about 1 week. What is going to happen is ammonia build up. Then nitrIte spike. Then nitrAte spike. (they are different, nitrite is more easily controlled but much more poisonous) Then all will go back to zero. During these spikes you need to do LARGE water changes, like 50% maybe every other day, possibly even everyday depending how bad the spikes get. This could last up to a month or more, hopefully not, though. This is why it sucks to do a cycle with a crowded tank, it's very difficult and lasts a long time and usually just ends in fish casualty.

DO NOT overfeed, this will just worsen the problem. In my opinion, feed your fish once every other day at least until the cycling is over. 99% of fishkeepers overfeed in the opinion of a lot of experts on this board. When I started out I fed twice a day and had a lot of sick fish, but now that I feed once every other day all of my fish are active, happy, and healthy. Overfeeding during the cycling process is just going to cause for a dirty tank and polluted water.

Also it will lead to heavy gravel cleaning, which during cycling you do not want to touch your gravel. If you disturb it you are disturbing the healthy bacteria's living colony. Do only aesthetic surface cleanings of the gravel maybe once a week. Nothing more than this should be necessary if you feed properly.

Don't be afraid of feeding less, fish in the wild only eat once or twice a week and it's usually in small portions. As fishdudein has already correctly stated, their stomach is approximately the size of their eye. They don't need the regular meals like we do because we use the calories to keep our blood warm, they are cold blooded animals and aren't constantly changing their body temp with energy.

Anyways, hope some of this information is helpful, and hopefully your fish are tough enough to make it through the poisonous water conditions of a cycling tank. Good luck to ya!

 

[fishdudein]

Do you have an older, already established tank that you could move them to? If this is your first tank, do you have a friend with a tank that could give you a starter(piece of the filter media,scoop of gravel, anything with established bacteria on it) or perhaps the shop where you bought the fish could supply you with some of this.Wish I could say that the catfish will be fine, but it's kind of iffy, for the tiger barbs too. This will be a stressful time for them. The fish will survive a short starvation period much easier than they will a tank cycling, and any uneaten food bits will only make the cycling period worse for them. If you must feed them, keep it very small amounts.Adding an established bacteria colony to the tank would be the number one thing you could do to help them at this point, frequent water changes if you're not able to boost the bacteria.

 

[staredecisis]

Yeah that is definitely some good advice. Try to get a handful of gravel or filter media from an established tank from a friend or fish shop. That will make the cycle move much quicker. You still need to control the spikes with water changes, though.

 

[nicklfire]

ok guys appreciate the help,
i was just too anxioius to do it, then i thought about looking into a forum and found all this information, i was like.. ahh.. crap lol. So gotta get a tester kit, change water daily, and/or get some bacteria from a buddies tank eh....


Or could i just put them in a bowl and leave them there.. and clean that every day while i do a fishless cycle.. the bowl is only about... (sigh) 1 gallon


OR i could go to the pet store and buy a live plant, that will have bacteria on it right?

 

[dcraveiro]

Go to your fish store, buy a bag of this good stuff called "Bio Spira", follow instructions on adding it into your tank, and things should be off a little better!

Trust me, we all go through that phase! Hope you have fun with this amazing lifestyle!

 

[modernhamlet]

Just to put it all together:

Keep the fish in the larger container. That's where they have the best chance.

Plant heavily with fast growing, low light plants, like Hygrophila polysperma. These are usually cheap and available plants and while they might slow the cycling process, they will absorb both ammonia and nitrites as food, thus buffering your fish from additional shock.

Add a 1oz packet of Bio-Spira if possible. If not, get fliter floss or gravel from an established tank.

If you don't have one, get a master test kit. Test ammonia and nitrite everyday until they are both 0ppm. If either gets above 1ppm, do a water change. If you have to change the water daily, do so.

Feed them little for the first couple of weeks, like once every two to three days. They won't starve during this time.

Yes, this is overkill, but if you do most of the above, you will greatly increase the chances of a successful cycle without taking casualties.

Good luck! You can do it!

 

[jams.alaskan]

Nice job ModernHamlet - I second this advice. Good luck - you CAN do it.

ALASKA

 

[crazie.eddie]

Yes, no need to feed 3 times a day. In fact, since the fish are new, I probably would hold off feeding it for a day or too, to decrease the amount of ammonia produced.

No need to buy bio-spira or any other bacteria starters...the bacteria colony has already started with the addition of the new fish.

Keep an eye on the cories, they are very sensitive to ammonia.

I would probably perform no more than 10-15% water change daily and lite gravel cleaning after a week. This will help reduce the ammonia.

 

[Socrates]

Bio-Spira isn't just a bacteria starter, it's a complete load of bacteria. People seem to get this mixed up with other products that just "encourage" bacteria. I am no expert, but on this one issue I've read as much as I can find.

I can tell you from my own use. The stuff works.

 

[CFC]

Plant heavily with fast growing, low light plants, like Hygrophila polysperma. These are usually cheap and available plants and while they might slow the cycling process, they will absorb both ammonia and nitrites as food, thus buffering your fish from additional shock.

Plants will not consume ammonia and are not a good idea to add until the nitrates have started to show on the test kit. Ammonia is toxic to all forms of aquatic life and will burn the plants leaves. Adding plants in the early stages will just cause extra organic material to rot within the tank and push the ammonia and nitrites higher quicker.

Allow the ammonia to build up slowly keeping it controlled with small water changes every day, as the spikes get higher increase the ammount of water changed until you see the spike begining to fall and the nitrites start to increase, follow the same routine with the nitrites until you see these fall away and the nitrates start to rise, this is when to add plants. As suggested adding a handful of gravel from a matured aquarium will help but remember when transporting the gravel to treat it like a fish, bag it with some water, keep it warm and take it straight home to prevent the bacteria it contains from dying.

 

[modernhamlet]

Plants will not consume ammonia and are not a good idea to add until the nitrates have started to show on the test kit. Ammonia is toxic to all forms of aquatic life and will burn the plants leaves. Adding plants in the early stages will just cause extra organic material to rot within the tank and push the ammonia and nitrites higher quicker.

I don't pretend to be an expert, but everything I've read points to plants utilizing (and even preferring) ammonia/ammonium over nitrites and nitrates. My understanding has always been that short of a full colony of nitrifying bacteria right off the bat, the best defense against ammonia poisoning of fish in the first month is lots of healthy plants. I hope I'm not wrong!

---------------

"Plants are much more than tank decorations; they help keep the fish healthy. Nitrogenous compounds, particularly ammonia and nitrite, are extremely toxic to fish. Hobbyists have for many years relied heavily on the bacterial process of nitrification (i.e., ‘biological filtration’) to convert these toxic compounds into non-toxic nitrates. Hobbyists and even retailer of aquatic plants too easily ignore nitrogen uptake by aquarium plants or assume (incorrectly) that aquarium plants mainly take up nitrates...."

(Source: http/www.aquabotanic.com/walstad/plants_...filtration.htm)


"In aquariums both fish and bacteria continuously release ammonium as they metabolize food and organic matter. Fortunately for hobbyists, most aquatic plants (and algae) vastly prefer ammonium over nitrates as their nitrogen source. This means that plants continuously sift the water for ammonium and its toxic component ammonia. Thus, I’ve never had problems with ammonia in my planted aquariums.
Hobbyists can protect fish from toxins by hard work, e.g., frequent water changes, gravel vacuuming, and enhanced filtration. However, given a chance, plants can purify the water naturally and effortlessly for the aquarium hobbyist. In my opinion, the ability of plants to purify aquarium water and protect fish has been woefully underestimated."

(Source: http/www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/rr00388.htm#19)

 

[CFC]

Well after some research it would seem that some plants will consume small ammounts of ammonia and nitrite though nitrate remains the most used of the three compounds. Unfortunately the ammounts they use are very small and to have much affect on the measurable levels in the tank you would need to very heavily plant it. Ammonia in high enough concentrations is still toxic to the plants but less so than it is to the fish.