Breeding Fish. What a surprise

[Deleted member 149562]

I dunno...but when I think back to when I was a kid and learning from dad, there were fewer choices of fish and the fish were generally closer to how nature had produced them, as a result of that, fish were hardier and were not as prone to disease/illness

At the same time, those fishkeepers like my dad (and his dad before him) did not need the medicine chest full of remedies that are so commonplace as they are now due to the fact that the fish were virtually untouched by human hand and were physically stronger and able to fight disease/illness without anything more than water changes...and they did live longer too

That, to me at least, goes hand in hand. Before genetics could be messed with and the injection of colourings used, the fish were as nature intended but with the evolution of all the myriad of fins, tails and colours...along with more variants of the same fish than decades ago...the production of the medicine chests of stuff has become almost essential.

Fish will always breed when the conditions are right....regardless of species, they will multiply in aquariums just as their wild relatives have done for centuries. Most if not all fishkeepers will have experienced doing a head count and little extra wigglers appear from under the plants. The breeding was never planned, it just happened.

Actually breeding fish, whether for profit or not, takes alot of time, alot of expense and alot of dedication...without any guarantee that the fry will be sellable or wanted by the local LFS/club. And you need more than a couple of pairs of your chosen fish otherwise you geta watering down of the bloodline & gene pool.

40, 50+ years ago when the choice of fish and colourway was smaller and they had not been messed with made the idea of breeding them more attractive and not just for the monetary value of doing so.

The market for the exotic colours etc has exploded in recent years and that has been detrimental to the fish and made them throwaway...so instead of breeding them, people often get fed up, flush it and replace it with the latest version......we should not kid ourselves, there are people out there who would think nothing of flushing a healthy Betta just so they can go buy the latest model to keep up with their peers. It isn't only Betta that this happens to, its many fish where owners have gotten tired of them, wanted something different and flushed it to replace it. They are not interested in breeding, they just want the latest model....and that is tragically sad but it does happen (its seen on countless forums like this on a regular basis)

Breeding fish is a joy to behold but unfortunately some people neither have the time, patience or finances to do it.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I dunno...but when I think back to when I was a kid and learning from dad, there were fewer choices of fish and the fish were generally closer to how nature had produced them, as a result of that, fish were hardier and were not as prone to disease/illness

Are they though?

Yes if you look at the "mutants" there are quite a few problems being bred into some "variants".

However I would say a lot of the captive bred "standard" fish are much hardier, especially if you get ones that are locally bred. They tend to be a lot more tolerant of local water conditions and less fragile when first settling in (most likely due to less shipping/transfer stress I admit).

Regarding medicine chests. Maybe things have got worse in the last 10 years since I last seriously kept fish (guess I will find out soon). But I personally have never really had any need of medications.

Edit before hitting post:

I sat and thought about it for awhile and looked back at some of the fish losses I have had over the years. Almost all my fish losses have been new fish that have died very soon after getting them in tanks that had no other issues. Almost all of them with no obvious cause.

I think part of the issue for my losses at least was that some LFS seem to sell fish that are really small and young. I think pretty much every fish that I have lost (which didn't have a known cause, such as equipment failure) was a really small fish that just died soon after transferring it from the LFS. Larger fish never seemed to have any issues.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I sat and thought about it for awhile and looked back at some of the fish losses I have had over the years. Almost all my fish losses have been new fish that have died very soon after getting them in tanks that had no other issues. Almost all of them with no obvious cause.

I think part of the issue for my losses at least was that some LFS seem to sell fish that are really small and young. I think pretty much every fish that I have lost (which didn't have a known cause, such as equipment failure) was a really small fish that just died soon after transferring it from the LFS. Larger fish never seemed to have any issues.

I get all of my fish online from one of two suppliers who I trust...not had losses as yet (touches wood) in 6+ years of doing business with them when I have added aquariums. I have no alternative but to buy online due to medical reasons, I would much prefer to see the fish before buying and both suppliers will provide timestamped photos when asked which is a good thing for them to take time to do

There was one company who I will not mention publicly who sold undersize and underaged fish that I had the misfortune of dealing with. All fish were 1cm or under and 75% died in transit, the others died in QT. I don't normally QT fish since my two normal suppliers have always provided quality animals, but in the case of this third firm, I did QT cos of the DOA's were so high. Needless to say I will never have any dealings with that firm again.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I went to the LFS at the weekend just to check it out. We had done a quick visit before and it seemed ok but went to take a proper look.

There were quite a few dead fish in tanks, it happens I know but unless they are swamped I always take multiple dead fish in the tanks to mean they aren't really keeping a good watch on them or the stock they have has issues.

The BN plecos where tiny, maybe 2cm long. Neon Tetras only just over 1cm long. The discus looked incredibly thin and while I was there they treated 3 takes with an anti-fungal treatment but still had the fish for sale.

There is a local guy near me that actually sells from his house. I haven't seen his stock in person but from the photos they look pretty healthy and a decent size. When I get around to looking for fish I think I might start there.

 

[AbbeysDad]

Well I began fishkeeping in the 60's and the internet wasn't released to the public until 1993. So what one learned was from other fishkeepers, the LFS, available books, and the school of hard knocks.

But I don't think hobbyists have changed that much. Probably most folks aren't thinking of breeding fish over just having a nice tank with healthy fish. Breeding can be fun until you have a tankful of growing fry and need another tank or to rehome some or most. And what if MTS doesn't set in and you can't sell or find homes for the fish in the now overcrowded tank?!

Besides, fish breeding is like another level of the hobby. It doesn't seem to be the case in our club here in Central New York, but I hear that in some fish clubs with BAP (Breeder Awards Program) breeding fish can often be fiercely competitive.

For me, it started when Abbey saw some Balloon Mollies at the store, thought they were cute, and asked me to get a pair. Those fish produced three broods of 18 fry each. The first batch went to the LSF as a give away. The next two were sold for store credit. Somehow this began my journey as an Accidental Breeder, breeding Swordtails. But I digress....

So breeding fish just isn't for everyone. I feel that accept for accidental breeding, it's an extension of the hobby, like culturing/collecting live fish foods, joining a fish club, participating in online discussion forums, watching fish related YouTube channels, writing fishkeeping related articles...etc.

I think the internet has advanced the hobby since information (with a grain of salt) is so readily available. I do wish we could reduce the age old hobby myths and bad advice, but I guess with all the pros, there are cons.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

On breeding;
Back in the day, the relative few of us in the population that kept fish, might also had the room for more than the one tank. We quickly learned, before Thinternet, that it was often worth the effort to breed fish and swap, rather than to spend our limited hard-earned.
Mixing personally with other local fishkeepers, including the many knowledgeable fish shop owners, was part of the joy of fishkeeping. We'd share expensive equipment and swap and adopt both fish and plants. Introductions to these were made in one of the relatively many local fish shops.
The number of LFS have declined, whilst the larger franchises have blossomed and this is a great shame. One of my locals is a reasonable place, but the stock is dictated by the limited needs of the local population and there's a P@H less than 5 minutes drive away.
Today, the vast majority seem to have simply acquired a pretty box full of pretty things and I suspect most have neither the room, skill, nor inclination to breed seriously. Unfortunately, that growth in fishkeeper numbers has not translated to a growth in real life fish groups and, for that, I'd blame Thinternet.

On Thinternet;
As we can probably all appreciate, this is a two-edged sword. I've found all manner of great YouTube channels, scientific papers and excellent info and advice to browse and absorb and follow.
BUT...anyone with half a brain cell can also post up info and videos and these certainly outnumber those who actually know what they're doing.
I'll accept that my education allows me to be able to differentiate between good and bad, but that is a skill apparently no longer taught in schools and higher educational establishments. This leads the idiotic to be given the same credence of the accurate and, because there is more of the former, the latter gets less traction than it should. Facts then become perceived as simple opinions and once this occurs, it's mob rule.

 

[fish48]

I've been keeping and breeding fish for more than 40 years back in the day I didn't own a test kit and do not have a heap load of medications / treatments or have fancy fish tank equipment the only treatment I use is a wormer treatment white spot treatment and cooking salt and only have a basic ph test kit. i have a very large collection of tropical fish magazines and a very large collection of books they're not outdated as much as what people like to think they are, they still hold a lot of useful information when it comes to genetics and fish diseases I'm not convinced lt's as bad as what it makes out to be a lot of it is to do with inexperienced fishkeepers and a lack of understanding, fish I spawned last week Betta splendens, emperor, tetras, red line danios, zebra danios, White Cloud Mountain minnows, killifish, Guppies,and three types of goodeids

 

[kribensis12]

I don't think that wanting to breed fish is a fair indicator of the "state of the hobby". Beyond accidental breeding, to actually breed fish successfully you need (not comprehensive):
1. Many tanks
2. Much equipment (even if it's just a heater, air stone and light - it adds up)
3. Time for management of said tanks
4. Someone to purchase them

Reality is that a lot of people don't have all of those things AND a desire to actually do it.

I used to participate in a local fish club but it's very small and meeting time is inconvenient for me and my family, so I don't attend. They do have an online presence where I participate. That club is dying out because of a lack of vision --- not a lack of people who keep fish.

I am 28, married with 3 kids and work full time. I have always enjoyed breeding fish and am currently breeding Apistogramma Cacatouides (Cockatoo Apisto) "Orange Flash" and Mirogephagus Ramirezi ( Dark Knight Ram Cichlid)

In my area, these are less common (Dark Knights are pretty rare still, but becoming more available) and it does take some time and money! I am attempting to sell them locally but rules for posting that type of stuff on Facebook, Craigslist etc. are pretty strict making that hard to do and by also selling via Aquabid (I'm almost ready to do that) but there is much more work involved (shipping). My hope is to turn a profit and use that to help with college loans - but this is only a possibility because these fish typically command a higher price and are sought after.

 

[Gypsum]

There are plenty of people breeding fish. They're just not on this forum. PlanetCatfish for all your catfish enthusiasts, apistogramma.com for apisto enthusiasts, as well as Facebook groups like Corydoras World. When I've had breeding questions, I search those, not this, because there's a vast depth of knowledge in those corners of the internet. Some knowledgeable people here too, of course, but this forum does seem to attract newbies trying to get their heads around the basics. Not a bad thing by any means, but not ideal for how "how on earth do you spawn CW045?" (the answer... with difficulty).

And there's all the fish keepers we never hear from, because they have better things to do than footer on the internet.

Like someone said above, confirmation bias and availability heuristic at play here. This forum is a selective population and probably not indicative of fish keeping across the world as a whole.

 

[FishHobby99]

Well I started a thread on Friday about breeding fish only 18 posts and 5 of those were mine.

This must be what is the biggest difference between the Aquarists of today and 30 years ago. 30 years ago on a site like this ( If there was one ) everyone would have been breeding fish. That is what most people kept fish for was to breed them and have the joy of watching a tank full of baby Lemon Tetras swimming around or the interaction between the parents and young of a Cichlid family.

Forget the equipment and the advancements in care. This is where the biggest shift has happened everyone is just happy with there tanks and going down to the LFS to replenish them. It seems to me that the local community of fish keepers has gone and been replaced by the nett.

I now wonder how many of you regularly communicate with other fish keepers in your area or do you do all of your communication here on TFF.

What was/is done with all the youngsters? Did you guys sell/trade them?

I learn mostly from reading good sources & blogs. & from experienced people here like you. Abbysdad has a great blog with terrific embedded videos, some by people I’ve seen before on YouTube. Dr. Tim has videos up as well.
I do not know any local fish keepers.

 

[itiwhetu]

What was/is done with all the youngsters? Did you guys sell/trade them?

I learn mostly from reading good sources & blogs. & from experienced people here like you. Abbysdad has a great blog with terrific embedded videos, some by people I’ve seen before on YouTube. Dr. Tim has videos up as well.
I do not know any local fish keepers.

What was/is done with all the youngsters? Did you guys sell/trade them?

I learn mostly from reading good sources & blogs. & from experienced people here like you. Abbysdad has a great blog with terrific embedded videos, some by people I’ve seen before on YouTube. Dr. Tim has videos up as well.
I do not know any local fish keepers.

I ran my fish room as a LFS of sorts. Sometimes I would take them to other shops locally or as far as 2 hours away by car.

 

[Retired Viking]

I enjoy breeding fish, I tend to end up with a full tank of fry because I try and set the conditions just right for breeding. I have only 2 fish tanks now and one turtle tank. One is full of guppy fry which is easy. I am trying to have my ember tetras have a few in my 55 gallon tetra tank. When I had 6 tanks I was always having new fry show up.

 

[itiwhetu]

I went to the LFS at the weekend just to check it out. We had done a quick visit before and it seemed ok but went to take a proper look.

There were quite a few dead fish in tanks, it happens I know but unless they are swamped I always take multiple dead fish in the tanks to mean they aren't really keeping a good watch on them or the stock they have has issues.

The BN plecos where tiny, maybe 2cm long. Neon Tetras only just over 1cm long. The discus looked incredibly thin and while I was there they treated 3 takes with an anti-fungal treatment but still had the fish for sale.

There is a local guy near me that actually sells from his house. I haven't seen his stock in person but from the photos they look pretty healthy and a decent size. When I get around to looking for fish I think I might start there.

I was that guy selling from his house. It is usually a good bet that he will be on to it.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Speaking of breeding...

One of my aquarium's has been a little low on the normal Cory shenanigans...they been hiding a little secret or three

The randy little blighters have had babies....again

They had been egg sploshing quite a bit lately but since the BN's had been chomping the eggs almost as quickly as they had been sploshed, I didn't think anything of it.

This morning three tiny babies started prowling around the substrate for the first time...all under half an inch long.....

So much for the BN contraception plan....

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Speaking of breeding...

One of my aquarium's has been a little low on the normal Cory shenanigans...they been hiding a little secret or three

The randy little blighters have had babies....again

They had been egg sploshing quite a bit lately but since the BN's had been chomping the eggs almost as quickly as they had been sploshed, I didn't think anything of it.

This morning three tiny babies started prowling around the substrate for the first time...all under half an inch long.....

So much for the BN contraception plan....

At this point, I feel the urge to fumble with a broken seatbelt and mumble something about Nature finding a way...