Brackish Water Fish

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frtloop85

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I posted in the beginner questions and was told that I should post this here.

Afplayboy18 (my boyfriend) and I have a brackish water tank and we aren't sure what kind of fish to get.

We have 3 columbian sharks and 2 plecos. We are thinking about getting rid of the sharks after we figure out what kind of fish we want though.

Do you have any suggestions for what kinds of fish we should get?

We have a 55 gallon fish tank that we got from a friend. He's had the same fish together for at least a year.
 
The plecs shouldnt be in a brackish tank, the salt will damage their kidneys and shortern their lives considerably.

With a 55g you can look into fish like puffers, glass fish, gobies, archer fish, flounders & soles and anableps all of which stay at reasonable sizes.
 
There's a lot of stuff you could put into a 55 gallon, but personally I'd shy away from archers, scats, and so on -- they get very big (archers up to 30 cm / 12 inches long) and need a lot of space and filtration.

Have a look at stuff the next size down, e.g., sleeper gobies, soles, cichlids, dwarf monos, and so on. If you can, try and look at a good aquarium book such as Frank Schäfer's AquaLog volume on brackish water fish. Or check out the Brackish FAQ.

There are lots of misconceptions about brackish water fish. For example, the glassfish sold in aquarium stores on a regular basis, Parambassis siamensis is a freshwater not brackish water fish. Likewise halfbeaks, spiny eels, some of the bumblebee gobies, and kribensis -- despite the fact you'll often see these fish sold as brackish water fish.

Not all mollies, archerfish, soles, or puffers are brackish water, either, but identifying some of these fish is tricky.

Likewise, there's no such thing as standard brackish water. The salinity that orange chromides, many livebearers, and some killifish need is not the same as what scats and archers need. It's important to decide if you want to concentrate on fish that need slightly salty water (e.g., mollies, bumblebee and knight gobies, orange chromides); fish that prefer a middling salinity (e.g., violet gobies, black-chin tilapia, green puffers, common archers); and those that need something approaching full strength sea water (e.g., scats, monos, dog-faced puffers, moray eels).

Among the really cool stuff being traded at the moment are violet gobies (various species, some from the Americas and some from S.E. Asia); Awaous spp. gobies (superb "earth-eater" gobies that make first rate scavengers); dog-faced puffers (hardy, peaceful, but expensive); and freshwater morays (tricky to care for, but friendly and fun).

Cheers,

Neale
 
While wild archer fish may reach 12 inches (Baensch actually lists the common archer fish Toxtes jaculatrix at 10 inches) it is my experience that in captivity they rarely exceed 6 or 7 inches even in huge public aquarium exhibits.

I was under the impression that the common glass fish species found in UK stores is Parambassis ranga (Chanda ranga) which acording to most sources is found in fresh and brackish waters.
 
I've had a Taxotes Jaculatrix (Archer Fish) for about 3 years now, and he's only grew about 1" in those 3 years, he's probably about 4" TL now. The main thing is that they do indeed enjoy swimming space. I had min in a 30 for the first year or so, then moved him into a 90. He is much much more active in the 90.

Puffers and Gobies are probably your best bet

.
 
Hi CFC,

The biggest archers I've seen in captivity outside of public aquaria are around 15 cm long, which tallies with your observations. But even at that size it's a deep bodied, sturdy fish that needs a fair amount of space, particularly if you want room for it to spit.

The glassfish sold in the UK at least vary between Parambassis ranga and Parambassis siamensis depending on the shipment; Parambassis lala, the one in the books, is hardly ever sold anymore. I've been told that Parambassis siamensis is particularly common among 'painted' glassfish batches. Once, years ago, I saw Parambassis wolffii for sale -- a fantastic looking fish about the size of a adult angelfish with a silvery white body. A few places have Parambassis pulcinella as well, but it's expensive and definitely needs neutral freshwater.

Anyway, according to Schaefer (the Aqualog book) they're fish from soft, acid water. My experience agrees with this; I lost three from six in a brackish water tank, but changing the water to moderately hard, slightly acidic (ph 6.5) and the remaining three have coloured up and become much more outgoing, even to the point of being pushy at feeding time. Of course the real test is breeding -- but I'm too busy raising baby halfbeaks at the moment to do that right now.

Regards,

Neale
 
Afplayboy and I want a puffer or two but aren't there only a few fish that can be in the tank with them?

Also, what do we do about algae if the suckers can't live in the brackish water?

Man, I never realized how much needed to be taken into consideration for this...but I love it! :)
 
frtloop85 said:
Afplayboy and I want a puffer or two but aren't there only a few fish that can be in the tank with them?

Also, what do we do about algae if the suckers can't live in the brackish water?

Man, I never realized how much needed to be taken into consideration for this...but I love it! :)
[snapback]899193[/snapback]​

i'm afraid you'll have to choose between your columbian cats and the puffers.

if you want tankmates with your puffers (and more than just two puffers), get figure eights (abbreviated as f8s). f8s can be sometimes be kept with gobies and other tough bottom dwellers. but several f8s can go into a 55 gallon aquarium.

don't worry about algae growth. for one, you don't need any algae eaters before you have algae and for two, there are only a few types of algae that will do ok in brackish waters. for most brackish tanks, i would suggest adding snails for a clean-up crew, but not with puffers! a puffer's natural diet consists mostly of snails, so unless you're getting the snails for free somewhere, don't even bother. (but you should still check out the painted nerites over in the Invertabrates forum--those little beasties are gorgeous :drool: and they breed in brackish water)
 
There is no fish that does a plecos job in a brackish tank, to remove algea from the glass you have to do it yourself with a algea scraper.
 
There are several peaceful puffers that work well with other fish. Perhaps the best for a brackish water system is the dog-faced puffer Arothron hispidus. It's usually sold as a marine but does very well at a specific gravity of around 1.010. Marine aquarists often keep it with things like damsels and tangs, so it's hardly a dangerous fish; read up on it in a marine fish book. The only negatives to this fish are (1) it's expensive, expect to pay around $25 to $50; and (2) it's very large, reaching about 25 cm in captivity but potentially twice that in the wild.

The sharp-nose puffer Canthigaster compressa is a smaller species (~ 10 cm), totally peaceful, and very colourful. Again, it's normally sold as a marine, but it's euryhaline and naturally inhabits estuaries and lagoons rather than reefs.

The South American estuarine puffer Colomesus psittacus is not often sold but is available in the hobby as a special order. It's sometimes sold as a freshwater fish. It's fairly big (~30 cm) and a bit delicate. Don't confuse this fish with the South American freshwater puffer Colomesus asellus, which does fine in slightly brackish water but not the mid to high salinities you'll need to keep things like Colombian sharks. Both Colomesus are usually peaceful though there are exceptions; similarly, fin-nipping, while rare, does occur. Nonetheless, Colomesus psittacus is generally considered a good community fish for its size.

Sometimes combinations of fish are unpredictable. When I was at university I tried to keep some Colombian sharks with a red-tooth trigger Odonus niger. While socially they should have been fine, this trigger being generally considered tolerant, the poor sharks would get attacked. Why? It turned out that the clicking sound the sharks made (some sort of communication within the school) was almost the same as the aggression sounds the triggerfish made. So the trigger thought the sharks wanted a fight. He attacked. The sharks got scared, started clicking more to bring the school together, and the more noise they made, the more angry the trigger got. I had to separate them.

In other words, what works in theory can sometimes not work in practise. There are lots of wild cards in biology.

As others have said, common plecs aren't an option in brackish water tanks. I believe that there are one or two Loricariidae that do inhabit slightly brackish water, but these aren't the species sold to aquarists. If you aren't keeping puffers, then snails are an option. Nerites have already been suggested, but in addition at low salinities the Colombian "ramshorn" Marisa cornuarietis works too. Malayan livebearers will do well in anything up to half strength seawater, maybe slightly higher.

Many of the algae shrimps are also brackish water tolerant, but identifying which species is offered for sale by your dealer is tricky. The Amano shrimp, Caradina japonica for example, breeds in brackish water. Needless to say, puffers will eat small shrimps, as will predatory fish like Colombian sharks.

Cheers,

Neale
 
SNAILS! :does the tropical snail dance: :kana: screw the puffers; you know you want you some painted nerites :p :nod:


(sorry. i can't get any for my tanks, so i'm just trying to persuade everybody else into getting some. :lol: )
 
I have a brackish tank that is 77 gal in size. I have 4 columbian sharks and 2 scat fish and a dragon fish and a pleco and they all live happly. However I got all my fish at a very young age and for the plecos sake I started at a low sg level and took an extreamly long time to get it to were it is now and he is still doing fine. Plecos have been bread in captivity for so long that if you are slow enough with the sg increses you could be ok I am not saying that he will not die but mine did not. just my 2 cents.





pica_nuttalli said:
SNAILS! :does the tropical snail dance: :kana: screw the puffers; you know you want you some painted nerites :p :nod:


(sorry. i can't get any for my tanks, so i'm just trying to persuade everybody else into getting some. :lol: )
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How long they've been bred in captivity is irrelvant; unless the breeders are actively selecting for salt-tolerance in plecs (which they're not), the number of generations from wild-caught fish to the ones in your tank doesn't matter at all.

This isn't to say that you can't adapt plecs to slightly salty water, some people have. A local fish store to me has a royal plec (Panaque nigrolineatus) in a slightly brackish tank along with scats, monos, archers, and a lone Celebes halfbeak.

But the consensus among aquarists seems to be that, on average, plecs kept in brackish tanks with an SG above 1.003 are short-lived compared with ones kept in freshwater. So while you may have a success story, people trying this themselves stand a good chance of killing their catfish. Keeping them in salty water is imposing on their overall hardiness rather than utilising some innate ability to osmoregulate properly in brackish water.

There are numerous catfish for the brackish water tank, but the commonly traded plecs are not among them. Opt for stuff like brackish water banjos, the estuarine bagrids, some of the channel and bullhead catfish, shark catfish, and of course the eel catfish. These are all naturally found in brackish and/or marine conditions and will do well in salty water.

Cheers,

Neale

skeeter said:
Plecos have been bread in captivity for so long that if you are slow enough with the sg increses you could be ok I am not saying that he will not die but mine did not. just my 2 cents.
 

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