Blue Rams Pale And Lifeless

fish do get itches the same as us. I see mine occasionally flash. I've also seen it used as a stress reaction. When there's food around and the SAE's are bickering over it I'll see them flash a couple of times. There are no parasites in my tank as far as I'm aware I've just put it down to them losing their rag with each other. 
 
I would just sit and observe for now. It does sound like your male is stressed by something though 
 
I've just had a thought ... are you able to move some decor around? I'm wondering if he's stressed because the female has gone. There are theories that when adding new cichlids to a tank that already contains some moving things around disturbs their territory. I'm wondering if by moving things around he'll look to form a new territory and might stop beating himself up. You could also look to add a couple of females at the same time and see if he'll choose a new mate. If you do add two new females ask the lfs if they are happy to accept them back if it goes wrong. 
 
Just a thought :)
 
NeonTetra97 said:
 
There is no harm in adding garlic to fish food, as this is a "food" in its own right.  Very different from adding chemicals, salt, antibiotics, etc., which are not "food."  I wouldn't put it in the tank water however, as solid chunks...this could foul the water.
 
Regardless of what the manufacturer says, one should use common sense.  One of the ingredients in that medicated food is magnesium sulfate, along with some chemicals.  I see no benefit in feeding this to fish regularly.  You know, most manufacturers will claim that overdosing water conditioners is harmless, but this is not at all true; at the very least these are adding TDS (total dissolved solids), not to mention the chemicals.  We must always keep in mind that every substance entering the water is getting into the fish's bloodstream.
 
Byron.
 
Thanks for the input Byron, what food were you referring to? NLS Hex Shield or NLS Thera A? I think Thera A is intended to be a staple and is not medicated but if I'm wrong then I won't be using it. 
 
And an update on the situation, my male has been behaving oddly since the female died, no sign of white poo, but he is over active. He won't stop darting up and down the glass, and butting it. Also I think I saw him 'flashing' on the driftwood a few times, it certainly looked that way at least. I'm now thinking some form of parasite is at play and not necessarily Hex. I will monitor for a day or two then decide if Flukes are the problem.
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I was specifically referring to the "Hex" food; I checked that and it contains magnesium sulfate, IH-Imidazole-I-ethanol, and 2-methyl-5-nitro-(443-48-1).  This is the stuff that I would not recommend feeding regularly, but only when needed for the specific issue.
 
The Thera+A may be better on a regular basis, though I am not certain it will do all that much.  Aside from obvious fish foods, it has several minerals.  It's claim to fame seems to be that it has more garlic than the basic NLS flake and pellet foods.
 
I use the NLS basic freshwater flake as one of my three regular foods.  Most of us regular hobbyists do not have sufficient biochemistry and microbiology knowledge to know the ins and outs, so following a basic premise that as in humans, medications are best when used only to treat something, not as a regular ingestion.
 
To the male ram, as Akasha said, observe and see what happens.  Sporadic flashing is most often ich, though certainly not always; ich first attacks the gills, and healthy fish can fight it off so it never progresses to the visible spots.  I have seen this especially in newly acquired fish in my QT but it generally disappears.  Stress prevention is the main antidote to this and most disease.
 
Byron.
 
Akasha72 said:
I've just had a thought ... are you able to move some decor around? I'm wondering if he's stressed because the female has gone. There are theories that when adding new cichlids to a tank that already contains some moving things around disturbs their territory. I'm wondering if by moving things around he'll look to form a new territory and might stop beating himself up. You could also look to add a couple of females at the same time and see if he'll choose a new mate. If you do add two new females ask the lfs if they are happy to accept them back if it goes wrong. 
 
Just a thought
smile.png
 
Thats a brilliant idea! I wonder how much I would need to move things, I think I know what part of the tank he calls home so I might just buy some new plants and replace them, to be honest I don't really like the plants where he hangs out anyway. And as to adding females I am considering this, my LFS were brilliant when I bought the pair, I was given two females as it was hard to tell the sex in store, and they swapped one girl for a boy no problems so I'm sure they'd be fine with me returning fish. Only problem is they rarely have any GBRs
confused.gif

 
Byron said:
 
 


There is no harm in adding garlic to fish food, as this is a "food" in its own right.  Very different from adding chemicals, salt, antibiotics, etc., which are not "food."  I wouldn't put it in the tank water however, as solid chunks...this could foul the water.
 
Regardless of what the manufacturer says, one should use common sense.  One of the ingredients in that medicated food is magnesium sulfate, along with some chemicals.  I see no benefit in feeding this to fish regularly.  You know, most manufacturers will claim that overdosing water conditioners is harmless, but this is not at all true; at the very least these are adding TDS (total dissolved solids), not to mention the chemicals.  We must always keep in mind that every substance entering the water is getting into the fish's bloodstream.
 
Byron.
 
Thanks for the input Byron, what food were you referring to? NLS Hex Shield or NLS Thera A? I think Thera A is intended to be a staple and is not medicated but if I'm wrong then I won't be using it. 
 
And an update on the situation, my male has been behaving oddly since the female died, no sign of white poo, but he is over active. He won't stop darting up and down the glass, and butting it. Also I think I saw him 'flashing' on the driftwood a few times, it certainly looked that way at least. I'm now thinking some form of parasite is at play and not necessarily Hex. I will monitor for a day or two then decide if Flukes are the problem.
confused.gif

 
I was specifically referring to the "Hex" food; I checked that and it contains magnesium sulfate, IH-Imidazole-I-ethanol, and 2-methyl-5-nitro-(443-48-1).  This is the stuff that I would not recommend feeding regularly, but only when needed for the specific issue.
 
The Thera+A may be better on a regular basis, though I am not certain it will do all that much.  Aside from obvious fish foods, it has several minerals.  It's claim to fame seems to be that it has more garlic than the basic NLS flake and pellet foods.
 
I use the NLS basic freshwater flake as one of my three regular foods.  Most of us regular hobbyists do not have sufficient biochemistry and microbiology knowledge to know the ins and outs, so following a basic premise that as in humans, medications are best when used only to treat something, not as a regular ingestion.
 
To the male ram, as Akasha said, observe and see what happens.  Sporadic flashing is most often ich, though certainly not always; ich first attacks the gills, and healthy fish can fight it off so it never progresses to the visible spots.  I have seen this especially in newly acquired fish in my QT but it generally disappears.  Stress prevention is the main antidote to this and most disease.
 
Byron.
 


 
Ahh thanks Byron, I thought you were referring to Hex but just wanted to make sure. Can I ask what the other two of your regular foods are? Personally I have never used any NLS foods before but it will be a huge improvement on the current foods I use, normally bought from the chain stores or LFS, and they never have much to choose from. I noticed you mentioned QTing new fish, something I have neglected to do in the past but I certainly plan to do in the future. I know this is off topic, but can I ask what your QT setup is?
 
how much you move around is entirely up to you. If it were me I'd go to town on the planting ... even if it's in and around his territory. Fish like to have somewhere to chill, rest, relax and seek shade, especially if they are feeling stressed. It's what they would do in the wild. You could try adding a couple of girls at the same time, whilst the territory is disrupted. I'd aim to do it in the morning on a day that you are going to be around all day. That way, if he rejects the girls and gets nasty you can remove them and return them before any harm is done. Finding mates for cichlids isn't easy but I believe they are better as a pair if you can manage it
 
Akasha72 said:
how much you move around is entirely up to you. If it were me I'd go to town on the planting ... even if it's in and around his territory. Fish like to have somewhere to chill, rest, relax and seek shade, especially if they are feeling stressed. It's what they would do in the wild. You could try adding a couple of girls at the same time, whilst the territory is disrupted. I'd aim to do it in the morning on a day that you are going to be around all day. That way, if he rejects the girls and gets nasty you can remove them and return them before any harm is done. Finding mates for cichlids isn't easy but I believe they are better as a pair if you can manage it
 
He seems to be at rest (not very often since his lady friend died :( ) on the right hand side of the tank by a particular piece of driftwood, right now I  have a tight group of stem plants there that they both used to hide amongst, I don't really like them so this could be a good excuse to re-do that part of the tank. I always like watching my fish after one of the few re-scapes I have done, my places always go crazy chasing each other around and kicking up the sand fighting for their new territory. But after a few days they become so placid you would believe it 
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NeonTetra97 said:
Ahh thanks Byron, I thought you were referring to Hex but just wanted to make sure. Can I ask what the other two of your regular foods are? Personally I have never used any NLS foods before but it will be a huge improvement on the current foods I use, normally bought from the chain stores or LFS, and they never have much to choose from. I noticed you mentioned QTing new fish, something I have neglected to do in the past but I certainly plan to do in the future. I know this is off topic, but can I ask what your QT setup is?
 
 
Re foods, I am presently using three "upper fish" foods and three substrate fish foods, and I alternate so the fish receive different foods each day for three days, then it repeats.  On water change day they are not fed before, but as a treat later in the afternoon they are fed frozen daphnia and bloodworms.  The upper foods are NLS freshwater flake, Omega One Veggie Flake, and Hikari freeze-dried daphnia.  The substrate foods are Nutrafin tablets, Omega One Veggie Rounds, and Omega One shrimp pellets.  I was using the NLS pellets, the smallest (0.5 mm) and next larger (1 mm) but even after using these for several months some of the upper fish just didn't eat them, plus they sink fairly rapidly which may have been part of the problem.  The larger fish in the 90g (Congo Tetra, Black Ruby Barbs, and the Botia kubotai loaches) did seem to like these pellets, so they still get them now and then.
 
For a QT, I have a 20g that is permanently running, sand substrate (very shallow), and some plant cuttings from the other tanks.  I keep new fish in this tankfor anywhere from four weeks up to a couple months, depending upon the fish.  Many of my fish are wild caught, and getting them feeding from prepared foods can sometimes take a while, so they stay in this smaller tank so I can feed more and ensure they are eating well before they get moved into larger tanks with competition.  The benefit of using a permanent planted tank is that the fish are going into an established (not just cycled, but here established) system, and with wild caught fish this can be critical.  There is significantly less stress, and this can prevent disease and allows the fish to acclimate much faster to my water and foods.
 
Byron.
 

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