Bloated Stomach... Help Needed Quickly.

[ICEEGRL]

With a car I know what is less likely...
With a bloated fish I don't.
I didn't know that internal parasites were an uncommon thing. I wasn't the first to suggest it. It was suggested to me that that was what it sounded like above. I just asked what it was and what to do. I had no idea where to start.

Sorry Wolf! I didn't know. I guess that will teach me to try to check.

I was unable to find anything on cases that turned out to be really egg bound on here. I am not very good with this search thing on here.
I looked through the section with the danios, but all I found were false alarms. Those weren't much help.
I didn't find anything in the betta section either.
I guess I just don't know what I am looking for.

I sent the_wolf a message. Maybe HE will get it soon and help me. I hope he can tell what the problem is.

Thanks

 

[jollysue]

Since she is not pooing then there will not be much ammonia, so water changes should not be a big problem.

Can you get a pic of the butt thing? Not that I would know, but others might. Worms stick out and pull in or drop off like tapeworms. Basically the same thing as any animal would get.

Epsom salt baths are to draw off retained water. Constipation and blockage dangers are high for damaged organs from the pressure against them and the onset of infection. Two organs at risk are swim bladder and kidney failure. If the kidney fails then that's pretty much it, but it is just sometimes able to recover if the pressure can be relieved. The other problem from constipation or other blockage is of course bacterial, but it is internal and harder to treat. The thing now is not to feed and to relieve the bloating if possible. Right now all we can do is treat the symptoms, since we don't know the cause. But it looks pretty certain that she is not able to relieve herself and is full.

I don't see a problem with the filter.

The choice now is how much do you want her to go through? I have no clue what to do for hemerroids

 

[jollysue]

fish blockage
kidney desease

 

[ICEEGRL]

The pics of her butt are in post #1. The second and third pics. I even did a close up!

Thanks for the link. I think I will try that in just a little bit and see what happens.

 

[jollysue]

Rereading, it seems some were suggesting treatment for constipation. I think it was the best suggestion. Kidney failure is the other. If she is getting old it may be she just needs more care with food and such. She needs her greens and roughage like the rest of us seniors. It looks like egg bound is the same, prevention.

We always say that the epsom salts is to draw off the water, but is is also for constipation, as you say. Some of these guys know a lot more about the kidney failure than me obviously. I have assumed it was from the pressure of constipation and then infection, but apparantly I am not entirely correct.

 

[ICEEGRL]

ok I did not like that second link! I don't want her to die.
I did the salt bath, and I took a few pics of her so you could see what she looks like now. I still have to get them off the camera though. I will add them in a little bit.

How often do you do the epsom salt bath?

I am also adding a filter to her tankso she can have her water a little cleaner.

 

[jollysue]

I don't know

This is one blog I found on treating Betta for bloat and dropsy:

For severe bloating you can give him an Epsom salt bath to help combat the swelling. Add 1/2 teaspoon Epsom salt per gallon to a bowl of tank water and soak him for 15 minutes. (make sure the water temperature is the same as the water you are removing him from.) You can also try adding Epsom to his tank but at a reduced concentration of 1/2 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water. Results are mixed but it can be helpful in many cases of severe bloating. It's important to know this isn't a cure, just a way to reduce some of the osmotic stress and bloating.
source link

And another:
Because of the broad range of possible causes of this illness, it is best that you use a broad-spectrum antibiotic that covers both gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria.

One that is recommended is Kanacyn, manufactured by Aquatronics. Another option would be Maracyn and Maracyn-Two. Combining these two medications, which is safe to do, you are getting the benefits of treating both gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Maracyn treats-gram positive, Maracyn-Two treats gram-negative. All bases are covered.

Click HERE to view our Medications Made Easy page that provides medication dosage on a 1-gallon tank basis.

The use of Epsom salt:

Optional: Adding Epsom Salt to your betta's water is something you can do as an addition to treatment. This may help reduce the internal pressure caused by the swelling. Epsom Salt is made with magnesium, not sodium. Epsom salt does not pass through the walls of the stomach or gills and will extract water out of the surrounding tissue into the stomach, where it may be excreted depending on the level of internal damage that may have already occurred.

Should you decide to use Epsom Salt as an extra measure, know that Epsom salt is made up of Magnesium Sulfate. This does contain one part Sulfa in its make up. If you are using a medication that states it is not compatible with medications containing Sulfa, do not use this as a method of treatment . Dosage is 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom Salt per five gallons of water. If you are working with a smaller tank, measure out 1/8 teaspoon, divide it up into five equal parts. Add one part per gallon of water that you are working with. It will seem very little, that is fine. A little can go a long way. More is not necessarily better.

Additional procedures:

Added aeration may be beneficial for your betta while treating with medication to provide them with more oxygen.

Clean water is always important for a betta, but is especially beneficial for any betta facing an illness. You may find it helpful to change your betta's water more frequently while you are treating with any medication.

Always keeping your betta warm, between 76-82 degrees, will also help them to feel more comfortable and raise their immune system.
source

 

[ICEEGRL]

I got a message from The_Wolf. He said that she looks to be egg bound, and she should reabsorb the eggs. That sounded good. Then he said she should be ok as long as she is eating and all ok... not ok again. She won't eat! I am going to try again to get her to eat. I am going to cook her a pea and see how it goes. Maybe she will nibble a little.
He also said that she should be ok in the main tank, but with all the other danios and corys I am afraid they would be too rough. She is so weak right now.
He said that he has rubbed and used a gentle pressure to help unclog gold fish, but not anything this small and would be afraid to cause damage to her. I don't want to hurt her. I guess I will concentrate on getting her to eat, and maybe do another dip or two. Hopefully if she starts to eat she will regain some of her strength.
I will check back in here in a little bit. I need to fix her pea and see if I can come up with anything else she might be tempted by. I really hope she starts eating again soon.
How long can they go without eating without having problems?

Thanks for helping!

 

[jollysue]

a couple of weeks
The "if they are eating" is a symptom; if they are not eating they are sicker than if they are eating; did you tell him she wasn't eating or pooing and was laying on the bottom?

 

[ICEEGRL]

He said he read this whole thread. I figure he saw it, but I did reply and tell him that she isn't eating.

 

[jollysue]

Well, then, I would go with wolfie. Short of having a veterinarian visit, diagnosis is a guessing game. Did he think there was any posibility that it is bacterial? Oh well, that's the best you can do. You can keep googling and see what else you can find. Maybe you can fin pics of egg bound fish. He is correct, trying to massage her is only liable to cause a rupture. She has to do it by reabsorbing the eggs. Maybe if you can google some info you can find the best ways to prevent it. One thing said diet, exercise, and tank conditions--as always. If she is not breeding, then lower the "conditioning" foods, I think I read.

 

[-germ-]

While fairly rare, egg-holding has been associated with causing toxic shock in fish.
Just thought i'd put that out there to add to your list of possibilities....

 

[jollysue]

While fairly rare, egg-holding has been associated with causing toxic shock in fish.
Just thought i'd put that out there to add to your list of possibilities....

I was going to laugh, but it seemed inappropriate. B)

 

[ICEEGRL]

He sent me another message with a possible treatment with melafix. I sent him a few questions so I will be sure of what I am doing before I decide for sure. It is kind of risky, but if I don't do something she will die anyway. She will starve. It has already been 3 days that I am pretty sure she hasn't eaten a bite. (maybe longer)
I am spending some quality time with google too.
Thanks germ. Just what I need... more to worry about
It is good to be warned though. I do appreciate it.
Thanks for sticking with me Sue!

 

[jollysue]

It takes weeks for fish to starve. The lack of food won't kill her. Constipation will. Her body doesn't need to spend energy digesting food she can't eliminate.