Big Waste Producers

[dixaisy930]

The more I read about frogfish (Antennarius maculatus), dwarf lions, etc...the more I like them. I am wondering if it is possible to keep one of them in a 29 gallon (or 20 L?) without a skimmer. In one article I read, the author used chemi pure to help with water quality. Would this, along with a few other medias (purigen, seachem seagel), and regular water changes make it a suitable enviroment for one of these big waste producers?

 

[enjoiskater158]

im not sure about a frogfish. but a dwarf lion should be fine. almost all lions will only eat live foods when first added to a tank, so have some lglass shrimp ready. it takes a while to get them to eat frozen foods but my friends loves krill and will come to the top of the tank and perch on the magnet and wait for food when he's hungry. Im sure if you do about 5 gallon water changes every week you shuold be fine with the lion

 

[andywg]

I would be very wary of keeping any SW pred without a skimmer. It is possible, but you will be making life a lot harder for yourself in the long run, and a lot more expensive in continuously buying more salt to do water changes.

These are pretty messy fish and can foul up a tank pretty quick. Most pred keepers advise massive over skimming, to the tune of 2-3 times over.

 

[sianeds]

What would you guys say is the smallest tank you could comfortably keep a frogfish in?

I have a selection of tanks sitting around and would love a frogfish...unfortunately I am running short of house room!

I wouldn't keep one in a tank that was too small but I don't have space to be over-generous if you get me.

 

[dixaisy930]

Ok, I took a look at skimmers and now my head hurts. lol It seems Prizm and SeaClone are not good ones? And skilters....are these just a waste of money?

I wouldn't mind getting a skimmer if it was relatively easy to use, and easy maintence. I would also need one that would be HOB, as I will not have a sump with this tank.

I found this nano skimmer, but the price worries me (it's so cheap).

Fission Nano Skimmer

Now, I won't be having any corals in this tank and probably minimal inverts (if I do go with a pred).

I've done some reading on the frogs, and from my understanding, a 20 gallon could be doable for them. I think you can go a little smaller (with the smaller species...I believe there are a few species that get up to 8 or 10 inches?) if you overfilter. They don't swim or move much, is my understanding, so the water volume is more important to dilute the waste. I think....

 

[andywg]

There are some frogs you can keep in 5 gallons and under, such as Antennarius dorehensis or the Antennatus spp. The former will happily spawn in less than 5 gallons.

There are others (such as A. commerson or A. ocellatus) which grow past a foot and really need 40 gallons or more.

You are correct that the water volume is more for dilution than swimming space with a frog. If you have a rack system with a central sump then 5-10 gallons will likely suit most frogs.

If you don't mind spending money, Tunze do a very good nano skimmer that is internal and gives good results.

 

[dixaisy930]

Do your frog's hide quite a bit, or do you seem them often? I'm sure it takes some time for them to get comfortable in a new tank.

Would keep them in a strictly species tank, or (if it was large enough) could they be kept with full grown dwarf angels? Are they actually aggressive fish, or just hungry/greedy fish with big mouths?

I know they eat shrimp and crabs, but would snails and mirco-stars be at risk as well?

 

[Redstratplayer1]

I love frog fish my lfs always has them in stock they sell for $35 to $300

I have a 12 x14 space next to my tank i was thinking of for a frog fish or pipe fish i was also thinkin of making a mangrove tank for that spot to ........

Any way its going to be a long time before i can give in to my MTS.....

 

[sianeds]

There are some frogs you can keep in 5 gallons and under, such as Antennarius dorehensis or the Antennatus spp. The former will happily spawn in less than 5 gallons.

There are others (such as A. commerson or A. ocellatus) which grow past a foot and really need 40 gallons or more.

You are correct that the water volume is more for dilution than swimming space with a frog. If you have a rack system with a central sump then 5-10 gallons will likely suit most frogs.

If you don't mind spending money, Tunze do a very good nano skimmer that is internal and gives good results.

Hmmm....... the tank I was setting up witha view to keeping seahorses is now looking more frog friendly by the minute.... would a smaller frog be ok with a small lion?? Oh the possibilities

 

[Miss Wiggle]

wow i'm jealous i'd love a frogfish


seeing all Andy's must have converted us all!

while were on the subject does anyone know of a decent site with info on them, care requirements etc, just for a nose basically!

 

[andywg]

For great advice, head to Reef Central or Grim Reefers and speak to Uberfugu, he really knows his onions.

Also, Scott W Michael (author of the Reef Fishes series of books) is somewhat of an authority on frogfish, so if you can contact him you are guarenteed good advice.

Reef Fishes Volume 1 has a great chapter on frogfish, and this site has some great information on frogs.

Frogfish should not really be kept with lions. The venom in lions has no effect on frogs, except possibly making them taste better. The only way to keep a lion with a frog would be to have a lion at elast twice the size of the frog, at which point the frog could well be on the lion's dinner menu.

It is not that a frogfish is particularly aggressive, just that it is capable of eating things that are larger than itself. This means certain death for the fish that is eaten, but if the prey is too large then the frog can die from having the prey rot in its stomach before it can be fully digested.

It is possible to keep the less voracious frogs together, but some, such as A. striatus are known to eat conspecifics of the same size. Best practice is to keep tham as one fish per tank.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

excellent thanks andy

you can rest assured if we ever bite the bullet and get one you'll be getting harassed plenty

 

[dixaisy930]

Thanks for all of the info!

Has your new guy changed colors at all? Is it eating frozen yet?

What size food to you recommend for a frog around 3 inches?

 

[andywg]

No change of colour, and he hasn't eaten frozen with me yet, though I have all this week to try before I worry at all.

At 3 Inches anything about 1.5" or so should be fine. I feed half spratts, prawns, muscles and the like.

 

[sianeds]

Would you mind posting a video of you feeding your frogfish please Andywg?

I'd love to see how you do it and a video like you did with your eel would be great

I saw a really cool bright red frogfish a little while ago and I am really considering one....lots and lots of reading first as usual.