BETTER FISHMATES.

[Sunnyspots]

So what are good tankmates for angelfish? (I'm looking at them too). I know space is an issue but assuming about 75 gallons (300 litres). @George07 what size is your tank?

 

[Byron]

So what are good tankmates for angelfish? (I'm looking at them too). I know space is an issue but assuming about 75 gallons (300 litres). @George07 what size is your tank?

There are some generalities one can use to select or reject tankmates. Obviously they must share similar environmental aspects, which includes water parameters and other habitat features. They must not be active swimmers. They must not be prone to fin nip. They must be large enough not to be considered food (linear fish and very small fish are not suitable). Tank size factors in, and here we should remember that a group of angelfish (this is a shoaling species, five is the minimum number) will develop an hierarchy, and a pair may well form. This can lead to removing the other angelfish to save them. Two or three or four angelfish is never wise. And fish must select their mates, and bond.

 

[Avel1896]

Of course well planted tand (leafy plants) spiderroots, gentle flow, tall tank (60 cm), TDS below 200 µS/cm.
About tank mates : slow and calm dwellers such as : Corydoras with a dedicated sand beach, a shoal/school of any characids of at least 5 cm long to avoid them being snacked : Paracheirodon axelrodi - Trigonostigma heteromorpha - Danio margaritatus - Nannostomus eques/beckfordi - Hemigrammus unilineatus - Hemigrammus stictus - Mimagoniates microlepis - Hyphessobrycon erythrostigma/anisitsi - Phenacogrammus interruptus....

 

[Sunnyspots]

I was counting on 5+ angelfish so that's good. Thanks for the suggestions Avel1896, I'll look at them.

 

[Avel1896]

I was counting on 5+ angelfish so that's good. Thanks for the suggestions Avel1896, I'll look at them.

You're welcome
No fish under 4-4.5 cm long or Angels will snack them.

 

[charlotte1211]

I do not understand aquarists who place what they want over what the fish needs. I have always considered the health and well-being of the fish to be primary, as it should be with any captive animal.

I don't consider mollies to be compatible with angelfish. The former must have moderately hard or harder water, 15 dGH is minimum, and mollies will be better with a higher GH, up to 30 dGH, and a basic pH (above 7 up to high 8's). Angelfish are very soft water fish, although the generations of commercially-raised fish has allowed their water parameter needs to be somewhat more "basic," but the GH should be no higher than 15 dGH, with a pH no higher than 7.5, which means that neither fish will be well served by trying to compromise. These values (GH and pH, along with temperature) are what drive the fish's metabolism and the physiology of the species has evolved over thousands of years and is now part of their genetic "blueprint." It cannot be ignored if one cares about the health of the fish. [I've used the ranges from Seriously Fish for these two species, ranges which are perhaps liberal but people always want "numbers."]

And before it is mentioned, the fact that these fish may survive what we force on them does not mean they could not be better cared for; the further outside the species' parameters, the more difficulty they have just maintaining necessary life functions. They may swim normally, feed normally, and even spawn--but that does not mean they are in the best of health. Like most all animals, they will "make do" with what they are thrown into, but surviving is not thriving. And responsible aquarists should consider the needs of the fish first and foremost.

My primary concern is the fish! I do believe that yes we purchase fish and therefore we should look after them with the best care we can possibly provide. A lot of my fish knowledge comes from my dad, grandpa and my great uncle. My uncle is actually an Angel fish breeder and has kept them for well over 20 years which is actually what got me into the hobby. His belief is that mollies are a hardy fish that have always worked perfectly within a community tank or a tank that is just for angels and mollies.

However I do understand your point of view and i will do a bit more research personally on this subject. Always good to expand the knowledge.

 

[Avel1896]

My primary concern is the fish!

I do agree ! But this is damn hard to make people understand it !
I'm pretty sure that the concept "want everything, right now" is responsible for 90% fish mistreatment.

 

[Sunnyspots]

I do agree ! But this is damn hard to make people understand it !
I'm pretty sure that the concept "want everything, right now" is responsible for 90% fish mistreatment.

That and ignorance or bad advice.

 

[Avel1896]

I do not understand aquarists who place what they want over what the fish needs.

Maybe because they are not aquarists at all. The french word for aquarist is :
aqua ..................................... rio .......................... phile
from latin aqua = water and rium = structure.......from ancient Greek 'philos' meaning 'friend or someone that likes much something'.
I find it has more sens than aquarist.

 

[Avel1896]

That and ignorance or bad advice.

Bad advices are also responsible for mistreatment.

 

[Sunnyspots]

Maybe because they are not aquarists at all. The french word for aquarist is :
aqua ..................................... rio .......................... phile
from latin aqua = water and rium = structure.......from ancient Greek 'philos' meaning 'friend or someone that likes much something'.
I find it has more sens than aquarist.

I like that. Aquarist sounds very clinical, especially by comparison with aquariophile.

 

[charlotte1211]

I do agree ! But this is damn hard to make people understand it !
I'm pretty sure that the concept "want everything, right now" is responsible for 90% fish mistreatment.

Its not necessarily the "want everything, right now!" This is a common opinion across the fish community. I think there is a lot of misleading information out there of course but again it has been tried and proven it can work.

My fish are happy and healthy I don't currently have any Mollies or Angel fish and don't claim to be any sort of Angel fish/Mollie expert.

 

[Byron]

I was counting on 5+ angelfish so that's good. Thanks for the suggestions Avel1896, I'll look at them.

I'll just mention, now I know this info, that a group of five or more will in time (and not all that far down the road) need an 8-foot/240 cm long tank to provide minimal space for the fish to properly interact without risking death...and this is not guaranteed either.

 

[Avel1896]

Its not necessarily the "want everything, right now!" This is a common opinion across the fish community. I think there is a lot of misleading information out there of course but again it has been tried and proven it can work.

My fish are happy and healthy I don't currently have any Mollies or Angel fish and don't claim to be any sort of Angel fish/Mollie expert.

I only said ""90%"" Let's say it is a set of negative factors that have been going on for far too long....

 

[Byron]

Its not necessarily the "want everything, right now!" This is a common opinion across the fish community. I think there is a lot of misleading information out there of course but again it has been tried and proven it can work.

My fish are happy and healthy I don't currently have any Mollies or Angel fish and don't claim to be any sort of Angel fish/Mollie expert.

When anyone posts something like this, I am compelled to comment. Please understand it is not intended to be argumentative, nor derogatory. It is simply a statement of factual information that is not understood especially by those new to the hobby, and since we have members new to the hobby it would be disadvantageous to not explain things. Hopefully we have all come here to learn as well as share what we already know.

The misleading info is a big problem; much of what one finds by searching the internet is inaccurate, misleading, or just plain false. Anyone can run a site and make videos, but the data may be completely erroneous. Another member has recently posted links to what are totally impossible videos of someone catching human-developed fancy strains of bettas and other fish in natural rivers. This sort of nonsense does the hobby no good. Each of us needs to learn who is the "authority" and follow that advice or use their information. This is not to say that authorities never make mistakes, we all do; but these people have peer review, and the intelligence to use it.

I also feel it is wrong to assume that because something has been tried, it must work. This is not in the best interests of the fish. Fish. like all animals, can put up with a lot that is not in their best interests, as the will to overcome everything and live is the strongest force in all animals. Swimming, eating and spawning are not guarantees that "x" is OK. The complex biological interrelationship of fish to their aquatic environment is most assuredly not understood by many, and it must be learned (at least to the point of being recognized and accepted as crucial) by all of us entering the hobby. We cannot ever assume that just because we see nothing externally, everything is good. Stress caused by this or that can continue for months before a fish shows any external "symptom," and by then it is too late. Stress causes 90% of all aquarium fish disease. And the only way to avoid stress is to research and understand the species' requirements and provide them whether exactly or artificially, depending upon the factor.