Bettas over cichlids.

[Opcn]

Hey guys You all need to calm down.

CFC like it or not Jars aren't viewed as being wrong over here so FM isn't some horrible person for doing what he did especially since he is getting larger tanks As we speek. It is acceptable to temporarily home bettas in small containers Even with most of the people in the UK. You keep large active fish but bettas are not large active fish.

And

FM Even if you feel you were wronged I dont think this is the place to Complain about mods PM will if you want. Personnally I dont think FM has done anything Bad or good with these bettas as of yet and

Auratus I would think it wrong to flame a newbie over something like this aswell.

 

[freshmike]

I just think we were all a bit stunned to see you keeping all those bettas in those tiny jars.

Yeah, real tiny. ....and I will react in any manner I see reasonable.

If I am attacked, I will stand up for myself. The fact is, is that I WAS attacked.

....and wait until I got the better homes before I bought the fish? Are you out of your mind? Did I NOT show you the cups that they came in?? You don't think that being in the jar until I get a bigger home for them is not better than a freaking cup? Do I need to time-line this for you? I am not trying to be an ***hole, but do you think that you should maybe think about what you are saying BEFORE you say it?

Screw this. I don't have time to play this little "freshmike is a bad fish-keeper" game...I am actually quite insulted by you ppl and wish you would just keep your silly ideas and thoughts about how I keep my fish and worry about your own. I have 57 bettas here, they ALL get WAY better care than they would get probably from ANYONE!!!

I love my fish. So just cut it out already.

 

[cometcattle]

I'd just like to add something in CFC's defense here.

From what he wrote, I did not get the impression he was making anti-American comments. Rather, I saw that he was trying to explain how people in different parts of the world see things differently.

It's called traditions and customs. We all have them, and that was what CFC was referring to. In the UK, bettas for sale are usually found housed in tanks with other fish. In the US, they are found on their own in in tiny aquaria. As such, this seems to lead to the belief that it is OK for them to remain housed in such conditions.

FreshMike - As you are a long-term and seemingly well-respected member, I admit I was quite shocked to read your responses to all of this. Many people have noted that it seems out of character for you to cause this kind of "controversy" and did not wish to accuse you until an explanation was given.

I just think we were all a bit stunned to see you keeping all those bettas in those tiny jars.

If you intend to house them in something larger when you are able, then that is fantastic and I'm pleased to hear it. But might I just ask (politely) why you did not decided to buy the bettas after you had acquired proper homes for them?

Now to everyone else as well - please try to remain calm and remember that everyone involved in this argument cares very much for their fish. If they didn't, they wouldn't bother posting.

Thank you for reading.

I agree with what you said about CFC's statement.
As a North American, I took no offense.

I think it's the fact that people were assuming that those were a permanent home, before commenting, is the main reason he's angry.

As far as your question, I don't think FM should feel obligated to answer to anyone regarding his fish purchasing.

Just my opinion.

 

[bkk_group]

freshmike, for what it's worth, i keep my juveniles in those same mason jars, i'm assuming they are the 1 1/2 litre ones?
there is nothing at all wrong with keeping even adults in those short term, providing proper water changes are done on a regular basis. i know it's soo hard for some of you non betta owners to accept the fact that bettas are indeed different than your community tank dwellers whether you like it or not.
farms in thailand often keep them in whiskey bottles during juvenile stage as the typical farm will have thousands on the go at any given time. do you really think they would risk their fish (ie. cash crop) if they weren't sure it was healthy for them? buyers can be a picky lot, especially those buying top grade fighters etc. if there was any chance that these conditions would stunt their growth or make them sick you can bet they would be in a different environment. right now i can look over to my fish shelves and see half a dozen mason jars stocked with floating plants and more importantly, happy bettas building huge bubble nests and swimming around comfortably. the nature of the betta is of a solitary fish, content to live his life in a small territory that he fiercely protects. they don't travel around, they don't like currents and they don't like other fish, give them a space of their own, take care of them and keep their living conditions clean and your fish will stay healthy, and happy.

 

[LadyMinion]

Well, I tried to be friendly and ask polite questions, but I got them thrown back in my face. I shall not bother being nice in future.

tear-scar, I did not get the impression that CFC was being "UK superior" either, but perhaps that is a matter of perspective. Once again, I am sorry for trying to provide a possible explanation for his post.

....and wait until I got the better homes before I bought the fish? Are you out of your mind? Did I NOT show you the cups that they came in?? You don't think that being in the jar until I get a bigger home for them is not better than a freaking cup? Do I need to time-line this for you? I am not trying to be an ***hole, but do you think that you should maybe think about what you are saying BEFORE you say it?

So, are you going to rescue every betta in a cup you ever see regardless of whether or not you have a suitable home for them yourself? I see many fish in unfavorable conditions, but I could not possibly buy every one.

I asked you very politely and you could have politely answered me back. Instead you have insulted me. I hope you are happy.

Cometcattle - thank you for understanding what I was trying to say.

 

[endparenthesis]

If freshmike had been breeding bettas and was temporarily jarring these guys out of the grow-out tank you guys would be saying "Wow, you gave those guys some big jars... that was very good of you".

To be honest, sometimes I think "I'm more humane" is this forum's equivalent of "My **** is bigger".

 

[tear-scar]

Just gotta add my 2 cents here too. I don't agree with betta fighting, at all. I think it's a horrible practice that only ends up hurting a beautiful creature. But that does not mean that I am going to go over to Thailand and tell them that. They have their own culture and so do do I. I have no right to tell them they are wrong.

Exactly. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean you can attack someone else's culture (and he did use the word "ways" instead of "laws"), or make yours out to be superior. That's something TRULY sick.

Obviously, I DID take offense, and based on the comment, I have every right to be upset. It is bad to mis-treat animals, but it's even worse to mis-treat other people. I think we need to keep the issue in retro-spect.

 

[cat.fish]

Bkk_group has sad it correctly. i also want all of you who doubt Freshmike to know that i will say that he is my top member on this forum who has given advise to many people and has made this forum a different place. so i also have to agree screw all of you bashers.

 

[freshmike]

As a matter of fact I HAVE been buying almost every betta I see that is sick.....is that a problem for you? I have also convinced the lfs that I bought these 8 fancies from to also sell them in jars....is that wrong?? 7 dollars for 12 jars, less than a dollar for each betta to have a much happier stay in the store.

As for the sick bettas that I have been buying, they are also in jars...a far cry from the walmart cups and yes, those are their permanent homes until they are better and I take them to the lfs to be sold as healthy, happy fish. Oh yeah, that makes me the devil right there.

Quite literally, I NEVER thought I would have to defend my fish-keeping habits on this forum. It sickens me that you all think you all think you are high and mighty and feel you have the right to judge me.

 

[semper fi]

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath here.

i have to say that freshmike and cfc are two of the most respected fishkeepers here. both take very good care of their fish and their tanks. i think it was assumed that the jars were a permament housing for the bettas. you don't see people posting pics of their fish in the little lfs bags. maybe a little bit of dialogue with the original picture and this could have been avoided? there is also no comparison either to determine the size of the jars also. cfc admits that he has never kept a betta and i am sure that he has never ventured into the betta section either. so he is probably not familiar with freshmike's maintenance on his bettas.

cfc can be a little gruff, but that is what makes him so endearing!

fm good for you rescuing those bettas! wish more were as dedicated as you. your pics of your tanks and fish are always amazing.

if this continues to turn into a lynch mob for either cfc or freshmike, i will close it. keep it on topic

 

[konrad05]

Personally, I think there is too much drama and this thread has been blown way out of proportion. I've read numerous threads of members getting told how to keep their fish and there wasn't the same fire as there is here. I'm pretty sure FM can fight his own battles and he doesn't need every member to "cushion" all the bashing for him. The arguing should be left to more important things, not to how many exact litres of water is necessary for one fish.

 

[bkk_group]

don't you think cfc as a mod should have showed a little more discretion and tact?. isn't the role of a mod to "moderate" not "instigate"? he is welcome to his opinion as we all are but i really think he could have said it in a less inflammatory manner.

 

[rvm]

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath here.

i have to say that freshmike and cfc are two of the most respected fishkeepers here. both take very good care of their fish and their tanks. i think it was assumed that the jars were a permament housing for the bettas. you don't see people posting pics of their fish in the little lfs bags. maybe a little bit of dialogue with the original picture and this could have been avoided? there is also no comparison either to determine the size of the jars also. cfc admits that he has never kept a betta and i am sure that he has never ventured into the betta section either. so he is probably not familiar with freshmike's maintenance on his bettas.

cfc can be a little gruff, but that is what makes him so endearing!

fm good for you rescuing those bettas! wish more were as dedicated as you. your pics of your tanks and fish are always amazing.

if this continues to turn into a lynch mob for either cfc or freshmike, i will close it. keep it on topic

Well said. Personally, I would rate CFC and FM as two of the best fishkeepers on here. CFC's knowledge and advice is second to none and he has really helped me out on my new tank, so thanks loads to him. FM always has immaculate looking tanks and obviously cares a great deal for his fish, so I would never assume he was treating fish badly on purpose.
However, I would agree with CFC's earlier post that in the UK, bettas simply aren't sold in cups or jars, so to us it is an alien thing. That's not to say we are right and you are wrong in any way at all, just different ways, like we drive on the left, you on the right. Neither one is better; just different!!
Just my 2p's worth I felt I had to add!!

 

[Sorrell]

I agree that perhaps he should have been a little more clear as to them being temporary homes, however, perhaps people should have asked for clarification before they attacked.

A couple things I would like to add. First I have seen mentioned in this thread that bettas in the UK are only sold in community tanks and you never see them in cups. Well I could argue that is worse then cups/jars/small tanks. As has also been mentioned, bettas are solitary and are much healthier having their own, small tanks.

I'd also like to say what endparenthesis said is 100%. Had freshmike posted pictures of jarred fry (a temporary home) we would all ooh and ahh. Because they were adults all consideration and benefit of the doubt went out the window.

 

[Arashi]

Personally, I think there is too much drama and this thread has been blown way out of proportion. I've read numerous threads of members getting told how to keep their fish and there wasn't the same fire as there is here.

Oh yeah? Remember when I posted pics of my Clown Loaches trying to get at my Apple Snail? I gave a very accurate description of what was going on, the snail was not being hurt in the slightest, just rolled around on the gravel a bit, and the Loaches were having fun. I figured I'd give you all a little sneak peak at what was going on in my tank, as it rather amused me and I thought I would share it with you all. And guess what...I was nearly crucified. It isn't just Chris who's been attacked lately...

Anyways to keep this on topic , I'm really not quite sure what kind of Cichlids those are, as I don't keep them myself. But they are really gorgeous. Beautiful colors. And it's kinda funny with the betta jars on top. Almost wish I would of thought of that.