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Betta with an eye-deformity. Should I buy?

London usually has hard water, but I don't know whether Manchester has hard, soft or middling
I think generally speaking the further north you go the softer the water. Although that is only really based on my experience in Wiltshire, Shropshire and Argyle so feel free to disregard
 
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Just a difference of opinion then, I don't think that's the only option. Getting the water quality in that 3.5g okay so the fish survive is priority number one for me, then working on persuading them that a larger tank is what the fish need, and will be easier to maintain, or to rehome/return the fish once the tank is stable, and just keep shrimp or snails instead. But none of that can happen if the fish have died of ammonia poisoning within a day.

I try to be gentle to people who are new to the hobby (the fish keeping hobby, whether you call fishkeeping a hobby is semantics really, but it's a useful catch all term) because many have been misguided by fish stores, including in that thread. For people new to fishkeeping, it makes sense to ask a fish store. They should know how to care for fish, it makes perfect sense to follow their advice. Then they end up with a tiny overstocked, uncycled tank, dying fish, and a sharp lesson in the fact that it's more complicated than adding fish to a box.

Berating people for following bad advice doesn't help them or the fish. The vast majority of people do not want to be cruel, aren't trying to be heartless, and will respond better to kindness and guidance rather than venom. Ideally, everyone would research any pet long before getting it, but I also don't entirely blame them for listening to a fish store and trusting bad advice, or googling and finding misinformation, there's certainly plenty out there.

I also believe that there isn't a fishkeeper out there who hasn't made a mistake. I know I've made my share, including ones that have killed fish. I feel terrible about that, but mistakes do happen... whether people admit them or not.

Telling them to just return the fish and give up isn't likely to work, they're more likely to ignore you, and the fish suffer as a result. Taking into account human nature and trying to work with less than ideal circumstances, while working towards better ones, is an approach that seems far more humane to me, for the person and for the fish.

@AilyNC can testify to this. She trusted a fish stores advice, and had an uncycled tank and was losing fish, and was sold fish totally unsuitable for the tank she had. She certainly wasn't heartless or cruel, she was just given bad advice. If she'd been attacked and berated and told to just return them, I don't know what that would have done to her, but it certainly wouldn't have helped anyone, especially the fish. She was sold huge plecos that need hundreds of gallons of water, and she took the time and effort, despite being very attached to those fish already, to find an aquarium that would take them, a long drive away. Had she returned those plecos, I can almost guarantee they wouldn't have nearly such a good home. She worked her butt off with daily water changes and water testing to save her other fish, learned a ton, now has two beautiful tanks, and is a valuable member of the forum, all in the space of a few short months. She's a credit to the hobby, and has valuable experience to share with other people who were in her shoes.

Not to take credit or anything, but I was one of the people on her first thread, helping her, and the fact she cared and as willing to do whatever it took was clear as day. Had she been greeting with hostility and deridement, I doubt she'd want to be here and learn anymore.
I remember.
I agree with your thoughts, Dearheart, and admire the time you spend helping others to be successful.
@AilyNC did work like crazy
@Huscarl86 , I apologize if you made up your mind I don't have time right now to read the entire thread...but so far it does seem to me you have a soft spot for the little fellow or you wouldn't be agonizing about it ♡ winkwink

As for all the rest, so far, at some point, people do get called out. I've seen it done several times on this forum. I find it hard to deal with people who mysteriously "get rid of" fish and usually find a way to voice my opinion. Often by asking them to clarify what they mean, and they get the message
I didn't read the 3.5 guppy thread, but perhaps the parents will learn something if they are educated and help their child learn, too. If not....at least they will most likely not be irresponsible again if the guppies die. Their experience will have turned out to be a bummer.
 
I will be buying her in a weeks time, if she hasn't sold by then, and I will definitely be back to update this thread with pics/video, so check back then.
 
I could try, but there are five other people watching it now. Half the reason I wanted this particular fish is because I felt a bit sorry for her and didn't think she would sell (when I found her the other 'perfect' Platinum Betta had several 'watchers' whilst this one had zero).

If somebody else buys her by the beginning of next week she may go to a better home than I can offer (I only have a 40 litre tank), and there will be nothing to regret, however I have a feeling she will still be up there and if so I will be ordering her. In other words; what will be, will be.

I don't intend on having the fish wait any longer than that for her new home/owner, so don't worry, if she's not in my tank this time next week, it means she has found somewhere else.
 
and there will be nothing to regret, however I have a feeling she will still be up there and if so I will be ordering her. In other words; what will be, will be.

I don't intend on having the fish wait any longer than that for her new home/owner, so don't worry, if she's not in my tank this time next week, it means she has found somewhere else.

I'm pleased to hear that.:flowers:
 
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40l is plenty. Betta fish are not extremely active, nor should they have tank mates. 10 gallons is actually a pretty large betta tank. A tank larger than that, the majority of the space just won't be used.
Edit: It's not a "large" betta tank, it's just more than enough. 5 gallons is what most of the members keep their bettas in.
 
40l is plenty. Betta fish are not extremely active, nor should they have tank mates. 10 gallons is actually a pretty large betta tank. A tank larger than that, the majority of the space just won't be used.
Edit: It's not a "large" betta tank, it's just more than enough. 5 gallons is what most of the members keep their bettas in.


I personally do not think 5 gallons is enough, I had Wihtgar, my first Betta, in a 5 gallon for the first six months, it was fine at first, but by the end of his time in that tank he had started glass-surfing, and also I think it was too easy for him to hunt my Red Cherry Shrimp, as I started finding dead ones, half eaten. He had plenty of entertainment, and i fed him on mostly live food, so I do not think these behaviours were caused by boredom or hunger.

After I put him into the 40 litre he stopped glass-surfing, and the Red Cherry Shrimp thrived. He would still chase them, but they had a much better chance as there was more room and more inside the tank for cover.
 
I personally do not think 5 gallons is enough, I had Wihtgar, my first Betta, in a 5 gallon for the first six months, it was fine at first, but by the end of his time in that tank he had started glass-surfing, and also I think it was too easy for him to hunt my Red Cherry Shrimp, as I started finding dead ones, half eaten. He had plenty of entertainment, and i fed him on mostly live food, so I do not think these behaviours were caused by boredom or hunger.

After I put him into the 40 litre he stopped glass-surfing, and the Red Cherry Shrimp thrived. He would still chase them, but they had a much better chance as there was more room and more inside the tank for cover.
Idk what to tell ya then. Just saying, betta fish can be kept in 5 gals easily. Depends more on the owners choices than the size of the tank at that point. I don't have a betta so I can only tell you about what I've researched.
 
Idk what to tell ya then. Just saying, betta fish can be kept in 5 gals easily. Depends more on the owners choices than the size of the tank at that point. I don't have a betta so I can only tell you about what I've researched.

It's alright, I know you speak the truth, as I did some research before I bought Wihtgar, and you are right that a minimum of 5 gallons is recommended, but I really do believe that is a minimum and in my experience/opinion, a 40 litre is much more suitable. It really doesn't use up that much more space on the table and you can fit a lot more in, in terms of plants and ornaments.

Have to disagree with you on the tank mates issue though. I know it's better to keep them alone, but I've researched it quite a bit, and it really depends on the Betta. I certainly wouldn't be attempting that in a 40 litre though (I did try, with some Neons, but they would nip my Bettas fins, so I had them rehomed with a different owner, in a much bigger tank with some other Neons).

If we are talking female Bettas, that's another issue entirely, as we can keep them together in a 'sorority'.
 
It's alright, I know you speak the truth, as I did some research before I bought Wihtgar, and you are right that a minimum of 5 gallons is recommended, but I really do believe that is a minimum and in my experience/opinion, a 40 litre is much more suitable. It really doesn't use up that much more space on the table and you can fit a lot more in, in terms of plants and ornaments.

Have to disagree with you on the tank mates issue though. I know it's better to keep them alone, but I've researched it quite a bit, and it really depends on the Betta. I certainly wouldn't be attempting that in a 40 litre though (I did try, with some Neons, but they would nip my Bettas fins, so I had them rehomed with a different owner, in a much bigger tank with some other Neons).

If we are talking female Bettas, that's another issue entirely, as we can keep them together in a 'sorority'.
I don't agree on sorority tanks. It always goes south eventually.
@Deanasue had one.
The only way I see it going well is in a 55 super densely planted. They aren't a friendly fish, end of the line imo.
 
It's alright, I know you speak the truth, as I did some research before I bought Wihtgar, and you are right that a minimum of 5 gallons is recommended, but I really do believe that is a minimum and in my experience/opinion, a 40 litre is much more suitable. It really doesn't use up that much more space on the table and you can fit a lot more in, in terms of plants and ornaments.

Have to disagree with you on the tank mates issue though. I know it's better to keep them alone, but I've researched it quite a bit, and it really depends on the Betta. I certainly wouldn't be attempting that in a 40 litre though (I did try, with some Neons, but they would nip my Bettas fins, so I had them rehomed with a different owner, in a much bigger tank with some other Neons).

If we are talking female Bettas, that's another issue entirely, as we can keep them together in a 'sorority'.
No!!! Don’t do it. Things always end up failing for everyone I know who tried it. I defended the sorority idea with tooth and nail because mine was “fine”’. For about 10 months I had a beautiful sorority of 11 female bettas. Then all hell broke lose! The stress they had all been living with caused Columnaris to break out. My fish were eaten alive with the disease. Lost all of them! It just stresses them literally to death!
 
No!!! Don’t do it. Things always end up failing for everyone I know who tried it. I defended the sorority idea with tooth and nail because mine was “fine”’. For about 10 months I had a beautiful sorority of 11 female bettas. Then all hell broke lose! The stress they had all been living with caused Columnaris to break out. My fish were eaten alive with the disease. Lost all of them! It just stresses them literally to death!

It's alright, I had no plans for a Sorority, and definitely wont have in the future after hearing this.
 

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