Beginner to salwater tanks.

[DMan99]

Hey!!!

At the moment i have three 50 UK GAL freshwater aquariums and one 15 UK GAL freshwater aquarium. I want a saltwater aquarium but i really know absolutely nothing about these fish. I have a budget of 3000 UK pounds, i was going to India in 2 years but now the trip has been cancelled.

As i said, i know nothing, i dont know what type of filtration i will need, what lighting, heating, decoration, and also what size aquarium could i have with my budget? I need 2 know about everything. Including stocking suggestions and live rock and alsorts.

I know a fair bit about tropical freshwater but absolutely zilch about saltwater so can everyone please help me as much as you can. I basically want to know what sort of set up i need for a fish tank as in, lighting, filtration etc as previously mentioned. Then also what size tank you would advise and then also some stocking suggestions because after all i am getting one because of the fish.

I like picassofish, not sure of adult size, temperament, suitability?

Help me please!

 

[fraservet]

You have to decide what you want to keep, either a fish only or reef tank. It is usually recommend for a beginner to start with fish only - possibly with some inverts and "easy" corals. Reef tanks require a lot more looking after and often more specialised equipment (e.g. much stronger lighting).

The general rule is to get as big a tank as you can. Small tanks can be much more troublesome because the water parameters are less stable. Also, marine fish have a much lower stocking density than freshwater, so in a small tank you can literally only have 1 or 2 fish.

I would recommend a minimum of 55 gallons - preferably 100.

I assume you are referring to the Picasso Trigger. They grow pretty big and are not really suitable for reef tanks. Trigger fish in general can be pretty nasty - I think the Picasso is somewhere in the middle of the range.

On your budget I would recommend getting a complete set up from a reputable company. It will cost probably cost more than collecting everything together yourself, but you will know you have all the equipment you need.
It would be a good idea to find a good marine LFS near you, and speak to someone there.

Perhaps a Deltec Aquarium

http/www.deltecaquariumsolutions.com/aquariums.php

these are quite expensive, but look very good come with sumps etc. to make your life easier.

alternatively the Aquamedic Anthias at £1850 seems a good system.

You will also probably want to use live rock as your main filtration. This can be very expensive - up to £10 per kilo.

 

[Navarre]

Hi and welcome to hte Marine forum.
Im a fellow UK marine user so i will try and be as helpful on what you need to run a system.

Your budget definately gives you plenty of options to start a successful marine tank. I would try and get the largest tank you can afford and obviously "put" in your house. The larger the system the more stable it will become (not to mention more fish etc).

Now that is out of the way we must try and narrow down a few things to make the avenues clearer.

Do you want a fish only system or a reef system (reef=fish and corals together).

Fish only tend to be setup slightly differently than reef system and of course, both have their own purchases that become more important.

Reef systems tend to be more expensive on the lighting as this is important for a reef (fish only systems can use any type ot light really).

Fish only "should" be easier to run but the trap many novices fall into is that they get the larger more *unsafe" reef fish and these usually require extra filtration due to the higher bioload they produce (Triggers and morays have collosal bioloads!)


The main brunt of filtration for both systems would be Liverock (you can run without one but i really advise against it).. Liverock is probably going to be your largest expense and can run into roughly £12-£15 per kg (you will need a minimum of 1 kg per 2 gallons of water) SO a larger tank can be expensive to stock with liverock (but there are other ways around this that i can explain later of you want).

As you are getting the tank from new? are you going to consider a sump? a sump would add extra filtration and of course a larger volum of water etc.

Lastly, you mention a picsso Trigger. If this is a fish you "Must" have then you will have to opt for a fish only system as its not considered reef safe (they eat crabs and shrimp and even munch on corals when the desire takes them).


Im from Cornwall, if you live anywhere near i would be happy to help (i doubt it considering my remotness ). I do have contacts al over the UK however and will be happy to try and get you good advise from shops nearby.

 

[Navarre]

Eek! those prices are outrageous! )
If a marine tank setup cost me over £1000 for a system (around 100 gallon without liverock) then i would give up right now!

My entire setup (100 gallon with 30 gallon sump) cost far less than this, admittedly some of it was DIY but the savings cannot be ignored!

100 gallon tank with wiers (4x2x2) and drilled £250 (i now know i can get it cheaper ... 5x2x2 drilled new for £125 locally)

400w Metal Halide £109 (including 10k bulb) (all new)

Powerheads (4xAquaclear 4000) £45 each= £180

Prizm skimmer (waste of money really) £100

Custom built stand (£50)

30 gallon sump: Free.. (well i doctored an old tank so i guess it did cost me something at some point)

Mineral mud... cant remember.. i think about £35 (Dont get miracle mud as it far too expensive)

Liverock... About £500 so far with about £75 of reef bones roughly

UV Steriliser £100 (Only used in emergencies but worth it IMO)

OK this doesnt include sand, fish or coral ect and probably have missed a few bits and pieces.. salt for example (I dont use the stuff as the seawater here is excellant)

But my 100 gallon reef system cost me roughly £1400 and thats is a totally running system. About £800 without liverock

Deltecs are £1300 basic with no rock etc!

There are by far cheaper ways to run a marine tank than purchase brand names.

 

[Navarre]

This was the system in its beginnngs through to the present day (well about a month ago)

The white rocks shows the latest set of rockwrok placed in (Reefbones)

Early stup sump (dont have new piccys sorry)

Early sump going thrugh its Cyano stage

Early photo of mangroves for nutrient extraction.

My reef is still young but it works and im pleased with its progress. Its also very clear that marine dont have to cost enourmous budgets to be successful.

 

[jflowers]

Navarre, What are reef bones?

And yep LR is expensive £14.50 a kilo here.

Jon

 

[Navarre]

Reefbones are dried out bits of liverock (Dead liverock )

Basically there is no life on them but the structure is there for bacteria to re-colonise. if you place it back in the tank then after a period of a few months it will become liverock once more.

Its far cheaper then liverock too.

A box of liverock is roughly £180- £200 per box.
A box of Reefbones costs £75-£100 per box

 

[DMan99]

Hey all,

Thanks so much for all of your advice.

Firstly, i want a fish only tank as i am a beginner and from what i have read this is the better option for a beginner.

50G or 100G was suggested but with my budget could i go for a bigger tank, size is not a problem as the room it is going into is empty, and measures 19' x 15'.

I looked at the deltec website but i live in Yorkshire, England so i think it might be the most practical idea, thankyou for the suggestion though.

My lfs is called Waterscapes, it is in Otley, Leeds. They do have a marine section there whcih consists of 6 tanks. I went there today and saw; dragon wrasse, percula clowns, regal tang, piccassofish, marine betta, lionfish and a couple more of which i cannot remember the name. They seem to know their stuff with regards fish and do have a good selection of equipment.

To summarise, can somebody please list the ideal size of tank, knowing my budget and the room size it will be going into. Also, a list of all the parts i will need eg, filter ( recommended ones), lighting, heaters, just a basic list of everything i will need. And then id love for someone to give me a few stocking suggestions, as i know it will be fish only so i will have to get some liverock?

With regards the stocking suggestions, any ideas will be gratefully received as i am sure you are all aware, i need all the info i can get. The type of fish i have seen and liked are the picassofish (although these are unsuitable?) and i thought the dragon wrasse was very cool.

Any help with tank, filtration, and fish are all wanted so pleeeeeeeeease help me!

Thanks
Dman99

 

[Opcn]

I wrote a long post but it was lost

So I'll summarise,

Never EVER impulse buy, one wrass eats bristle worms, another eats that 20 pound ornamental shrimp you just got (dragon wrasse eats ornamental shrimp). One grouper grows to 8 inches another to 8 feet.

Dont get an anemone, they are just a jelly fish on its head

and lastly read the pinned topics, they are great

 

[DMan99]

Cheers, il read the pinned topics.

Ciao

 

[fraservet]

I agree "ready made" systems are very expensive, but do look very good, and you get a system that will work. I would love a deltec tank but there is no way I could afford one.

If you are looking for a big, fish only system then the picasso and dragon wrasse could well be suitable, but read up on them first! The wrasse has a habit of re-arranging rockwork, and doesn't look as cute when it grows up.
Also be very careful what other fish you have with them and what order you put fish in.

If the floor of your room is concrete, then any size tank should be possible. If not, you really need to check how much load it can take before getting a huge tank.

I guess your budget could get you an 8x2x2 tank? I would certainly recommend a sump - maybe a 4ft tank - and it is best to get the tank drilled and have pipework installed rather than using overflows.
Without starting another big debate - you could get by without liverock. However most people would highly recommend using liverock, because it does the job with minimal problems and effort for you. Bear in mind, for a tank this size you could be looking at £1000 for liverock. If you used some reef bones and stocked slowly to give the reefbones a chance to seed, you would obviously save a lot here.

Other items you will probably want for a tank like this - uv steriliser, good skimmer, various return pumps and powerheads, heaters, fairly basic lighting etc.

One problem with a big fish only tank is that once your fish get big, you have to add similarly sized new fish or they will be eaten. This means either purchasing adults (often at £100+) or having a second tank to grow them on.

 

[fraservet]

I looked at the deltec website but i live in Yorkshire, England so i think it might be the most practical idea, thankyou for the suggestion though.

You can get these tanks in the uk, several of the better marine shops near me have them on display

 

[DMan99]

Thanks,

Well im looking into it to make sure i dont do anything foolish or that i wil later regret.

Thanks agen,
Dman99

 

[J-Money]

To summarise, can somebody please list the ideal size of tank, knowing my budget and the room size it will be going into. Also, a list of all the parts i will need eg, filter ( recommended ones), lighting, heaters, just a basic list of everything i will need.

What you need will kind of depend on the size of your tank. Bigger tanks need more, 200lbs of sand/more powerheads/bigger skimmers/2 heaters maybe, etc....Ideal sizes will differ from individuals. Some people like the nano-tanks, some people want the whole wall to be a tank. Though I like my tank, it's almost too big (I went with that bigger is better theory). I can barely touch the bottom. On the stand, my tank comes up to the top of my shoulders. So tryin' to right snails that have fallen over or doing anything at the bottom of the tank can be a hassel. but I don't mind

Good luck

btw, next tank i get, no matter how many gallons it is, won't be more than 24" deep prolly. I'm currently at 26"

 

[parker313]

btw, next tank i get, no matter how many gallons it is, won't be more than 24" deep prolly. I'm currently at 26"

I learned that lesson the hard way too I had a FW tank that I could BARELY reach the bottom of. This time when I was tank shopping, I went around sticking my arm down in the tank (empty ones) to see if I could easily reach the bottom