Beginner Plant Questions...

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fal3

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hello people! Not sure if this should hr in the plant section, but its a beginners question so yeah... Basically, in the past I have tried to keep easy grow plants like Amazon swords, anubias, java moss etc. But they all died. Every single one of them. I had the bottled ferts, carbon and had root tabs as well. Yet the still died. Why?
 
I have a 15w in a 15g. So that's 1 WpG. That's sufficient forba low tech setup right? I was reading up and discovered there is some kind of soil you can put underneath the substrate, true? If so, does it work? And what type of gravel allows plants to grow best? I've previously had gravel but clearly that didn't work. And I only have 1 slot in my hood for a bulb. So another one is out of the question. Why do my plants keep dying? Any other tips or hints, advice or anything is appreciated
 
This is not an easy question to answer, as there are several factors that relate to healthy plants.  The prime issue of course is light, so let's start there.
 
By "bulb" do you mean a fluorescent tube, or a screw-in bulb?  Once I know, I can deal with whichever.  Also, the duration is important.
 
Second issue is nutrients, which occur from water changes (the "hard" minerals primarily), fish foods (ending up as fish waste in the substrate), and then added fertilizers.  Can you tell me which specific products you used previously?  Not all fertilizers are the same by any means.
 
Substrate is less important, generally, though the grain size can be an issue.  I never use anything but sand or fine gravel.  If the gravel grains are very large, say larger than pea gravel, this can cause problems for the plants (and the water quality too).  But otherwise, anything smaller that pea gravel will work fine.  The so-called "enriched substrates" for plants tend to be a waste of money (I have tried one of these, plus additives under the gravel) and they are certainly unnecessary.  Substrate fertilizer tabs for larger plants like swords do help, but in a 15g you will not want such large plants.
 
I will have some plant options once we sort out the light.  Generally speaking, the aim is to find the balance between nutrients and light (the intensity and duration both factor in) that will result in good plant growth but not algae problems.
 
Byron.
 
Wow! Thanks for such a detailed reply. Ok first, The light is on for most of the day, now its on from about 10am-11pm. However when i had the plants previously it was on for longer. Around 7.30am-11pm.Its a tube. It has the two prong things at each end and it slots in to place. Sorry, really bad with lights and stuff :(
As for the ferts, I used easylifr easycarbo for the carbon. And easy life profito I think it was called for the rest of the nutrients. I also used api root tabs and put them where the pack told me to.
 
fal3 said:
Wow! Thanks for such a detailed reply. Ok first, The light is on for most of the day, now its on from about 10am-11pm. However when i had the plants previously it was on for longer. Around 7.30am-11pm.Its a tube. It has the two prong things at each end and it slots in to place. Sorry, really bad with lights and stuff
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As for the ferts, I used easylifr easycarbo for the carbon. And easy life profito I think it was called for the rest of the nutrients. I also used api root tabs and put them where the pack told me to.
 
OK, now we're getting somewhere.  The fluorescent tube, I will assume is T8 rather than T5.  It will (should) have this printed at one end.  The "T" number refers to the tubes diameter in eighths of an inch, so a T8 is 8/8 or 1 inch diameter, while a T5 is 5/8 and thus thinner.  There is another possibility, and that is a T12 which is 12/8 diameter and thus much thicker.  This T12 was the original fluorescent tubes and are no longer being made as the T8 iuses less energy, etc.  The T5 will not fit a T8, and vice-versa; the T12 will fit T8.  Perhaps you could let me know which you have, but I will continue for the present assuming it is the standard T8.
 
One tube will be plenty of light over your 15g tank.  I had this same setup many years ago when I had a 15g.  At this point, we come to spectrum, which refers to the colour wavelengths emitted by a tube.  Without going into detail which would only bog us down, I will just say that your best tube would be one with a "daylight" spectrum.  This is usually identified by the Kelvin number, and you want somewhere between 5000K and 6500K.  I'm not sure what tubes may be available in the UK, but other members likely will.  Akasha72 and daizeUK come to mind, they have both posted on lighting.
 
As for duration, you want this much more controlled and regular.  This is better for the fish as well as the plants.  I am going to get a tad technical here in order to explain things.  Plants grow by photosynthesis, and this is driven solely by light.  Different plants have different levels of light needed to photosynthesize, from low light requirement plants like Anubias, Java Fern, Java Moss, to high light requirement plants like most of the stem plants and usually most of the so-called carpet or lawn effect plants.  In between are plants like swords, crypts, Vallisneria and others.  Now, this is very general, but it gives you the idea.  Intensity is the main issue here, obviously, with low to moderate to high light.  The intensity must be sufficient for the plant species; leaving the light on longer does not make up for light that is not bright enough to drive photosynthesis for that particular plant.  However, once you have the intensity suited to the plant species, then we come to duration.  For the plants you initially mentioned, your single tube is more than adequate intensity (spectrum enters into this as I said above).  So this brings us to duration.
 
Plants that have sufficient light intensity will photosynthesize to the max, i.e., as much as they possibly can.  However, at this poiint the nutrients enter the equation.  Aquatic plants need 17 specific nutrients, and some of these have to be in protortion to each other; here again I'll leave this aspect or we'll never get through this.  Using your comprehensive liquid fertilizer will deal with this.  I don't know the Profito line myself, but other UK members use this and it appears to be good.  However, as the plants use these nutrients, they become exhausted.  And at that point, regardless of the light, the plants cannot photosynthesize fully so they slow down and may even stop altogether.  So we need to balance the light duration with the nutrients.  You don't mention algae issues, but usually when the light is on past the available nutrients, algae takes advantage.
 
Another aspect of duration is that plants, just like fish and all animals including humans, must have a period of rest or they literally "burn out."  With plants, this is a period of complete and total darkness, and it has to be for several hours within each 24 hour period.  You can adjust the light/dark somewhat, but remembedr that the light will drive photosynthesis and the plants have to have everything on hand to do this.  Most of us find that around 8 hours a day of tank light is usually workable.  A timer to keep this regular is a good idea.  The period of tank light can be adjusted to be when you are normally home to enjoy the aquarium.
 
The liquid Profito is all the fertilizer you should need.  Substrate tabs are not necessary in this small a tank, as you will not have plants that are heavy feeders as one does in larger tanks where these help as additional to the liquid.  The API tabs also have a habit of making quite a mess if they are disturbed.  As for the carbon, I personally would not use Easycarbo as here again in this small a setup you shouldn't need this.  There is a fair amount of natural CO2 (carbon dioxide) occurring from primarily the breakdown of organics (fish waste) in the substrate, and in this size tank with the plants you will have, this should be adequate.  To avoid the natural CO2 running out, we limit the light duration.  Again, around 8 hours should work.  You can always tweak this later, once everything is settled and you observe the plants' response (and algae).
 
To some plants.  Once we know the tube is a good spectrum, and you have the duration down, some plants that should do well include Anubias and Java Moss (you had these previously); these attach to wood or rock--you didn't mention it, but if the rhizome of Anubias is buried it can rot, so it is best attached to wood or rock or decor.  As for other plants, the chain sword will thrive and spread via runners.  The corkscrew Valisneria is another, especially if you have moderately hard water.  I would avoid stem plants as they will grow so fast in this setup you will be continually pruning/trimming, though that is up to you.  But some will need more light and CO2 that what will be available.  Floating plants are always good, as almost every forest fish appreciates a roof above them to shade the light.  Enough light will get through for the lower plants I've mentioned.  This is where the stem plant Pennywort is ideal.  The roots are not too extensive as some floating plants, so it will do the job without taking up too much space.
 
Feel free to question anything here, but this is I think a start.
 
Byron.
 
your right in saying its a t8. I believe I have this: Also, you say all I need in terms of ferts is the profito? Are there any other brands you can recommend? And as for duration, how many hours are ideal for plants such as anubias, dwarf chain swords ect.
 
was supposed to put a link to the bulb but it didn't work.i have a Hagen aqua glow 15w. I don't think the kelvin is above 5000k. Think its 4000. If it is 4000k what do I do?
 
I'll answer your last post first, concerning the light.  I would replace the tube; I have tried the Aqua-Glo (also have used the other "Glo" tubes in this series) and it is very weak light.  Over a 15g with low light plants this might sort of work, and as I said previously there are several factors in this issue, but I would replace it.  If you want to stay with the Hagen tubes, the best is the Life-Glo.  In fact, this tube is double the intensity of the Aqua-Glo, in the same size/wattage, so that gives you an indication of why all tubes are not equal.  The Life Glo is 6700K, and as far as I know it is the brightest light you can get in T8.  I use this over all my single-tube tanks, and I have tried a lot of tubes.  When I experimented with the Aqua-Glo over my 29g for several months, the plants slowly died off; replaced it with the Life-Glo and new plants (same species) did very well.
 
The other thing you will find if you change to Life-Glo is the colour hue.  Aqua-Glo is red and blue wavelengths, which makes sense because this is the light that aquatic plants require to drive photosynthesis.  The Life-Glo is also high in red and blue but also green.  Studies (not mine) with different lighting have shown that adding the green improves the plants' response, measured by an increase in oxygen produced through photosynthesis.  Diana Walstad believes this may partly be due to the increased intensity of light with this spectrum, but she also says this does stand to reason when one considers that these plants in their habitat received sunlight which is also high in the green.  The Life-Glo tube is said to be about the closest to mid-day sun as you can reasonably get.  It renders the colours of fish and plants true, which I really like.
 
There is another tube very similar, made by ZooMed and called UltraSun.  I have used this with good success too.  Over here in NA it is a little less expensive.  Either tube will work fine though.  And as I said previously, other UK members may have similar tube suggestions.  As long as the Kelvin is between 5000K and 7000K you should be OK...though I have had issues with some tubes in spite of this.
 
To your prior post...the hours is something you sometimes have to experiment with, as each aquarium is a bit different due to biological processes, fish and plant species, tap water, fish foods, etc.  As an absolute minimum, I would not go below six hours of light.  I would start with 8 though, especially if you get the Life-Glo tube.  Too long a duration, past the point at which the nutrients are all available, can cause serious algae issues.  It is in fact the algae that we primarily use in setting the duration.  Provided algae is not increasing, the light period can be longer--always remembering you need several hours of complete darkness.  I have worked my own tanks out to eight hours for six of them and seven hours for the other; any more and brush algae begins to increase because the nutrients have lessened after seven or eight hours and the light is no longer driving photosynthesis but algae.
 
Another thing is that with the brighter light, your low-light plants like Anubias can develop brush algae due to the higher light.  Another reason for floating plants.  And the duration may have to be turned down for this, once you get it set up.  The chain swords are pretty undemanding, I've had this plant thrive in every tank I plant it in; it will do very well under the Life-Glo or comparable.
 
Profito appears to be a good product from what other UK members have posted in other threads, so I see no reason to change.  However, as you asked, I am presently using the Seachem "Flourish" line.  Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is the basic complete fertilizer, I assume comparable to the Profito.  I have very soft tap water with no minerals of any sort, which is great for soft water fish but means I have to add more fertilizers for plants.  So I am also using Flourish Trace in my larger tanks that have more plants and thus need more nutrients added.  You should be fine with the Flourish Comprehensive if you decide to change.  Another good product is Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti; this is again a complete liquid fertilizer.
 
Aquatic plants can only take up nutrients from the water (like all terrestrial plants for that matter), and they do this via the roots and the leaves; some nutrients are primarily or exclusively taken up via the leaves.  As the water circulates through the substrate, it brings nutrients down to the plant's roots, so adding these fertilizers to the water is usually sufficient.  Substrate fertilizer tabs can help in larger tanks, but I have never used these in my smaller tanks (30 gallons and under).
 
Byron.
 
oohhh I learnt so much from that post! Really didn't think the colour hue would make any difference at all! And I'll upgrade to the life glo when I go to buy the rest of the stuff. I need to get gravel with finer grains because the gravel I have nownis about 5mm id say. So to summarise, I need to get smaller gravel, need to buy the life glo bulb, a bottle of the easy life profito. Also leave lights on for around 8 hours or so. That's ok right?
 
Hi Fal.  I think the Life-Glo bulbs are a bit expensive in the UK; I don't know how they compare to US prices, but the only place I could find that reliably sells them here was my local Maidenhead Aquatics store where a 15W bulb is priced at around £20.  That was out of the question for me since I need to buy two of them and since you're supposed to replace them every year, I calculated that the cost of buying Life-Glo bulbs would quickly surpass the price of a top-of-the-range LED system!  I couldn't justify that.
 
Instead I opted for a combination of Arcadia Tropical and Freshwater bulbs which were around £10 each from online aquatic retailers like Swell.  They are supposed to be used together to balance the colours so they may not be a suitable choice if you only need one bulb.
 
Until recently I was using Sylvania Daylight tubes which cost around £1.70 from online retailers such as Lampspecs.  These do a reasonable enough job at an excellent price if you're looking for a cost efficient option.  I found one of these with a reflector worked well for my 64L tank along with liquid carbon and ferts.  Anubias nana, mini java fern and hygrophila polysperma all did well for me under these conditions.
 
fal3 said:
oohhh I learnt so much from that post! Really didn't think the colour hue would make any difference at all! And I'll upgrade to the life glo when I go to buy the rest of the stuff. I need to get gravel with finer grains because the gravel I have nownis about 5mm id say. So to summarise, I need to get smaller gravel, need to buy the life glo bulb, a bottle of the easy life profito. Also leave lights on for around 8 hours or so. That's ok right?
 
DaizeUK has commented on UK tubes, so that's done.
 
On the substrate, you have what is termed pea gravel (the grains are roughly the size of a green pea, 5 mm you say) and while I personally like this (I had it in a couple tanks for a time) it does have some issues.  Plants will root easier in smaller grain substrates, though it could still work.  But some fish will have issues with this substrate fish like corys for example; a 15g is not much space, but if you were thinking perhaps of one of the dwarf cory species, sand would be the better substrate.  Visually, large-grain substrates tend to make small tanks look smaller, whereas sand does not, something else to consider.  I don't know what fish you may have, but if you can, now is the time to change the substrate before going further.
 
Byron.
 
Thanks for the reply Daize! Firstly, can I just say your tanks are amazing!
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Anyway.... I'll try and find a life-glo which Byron recommended at a half decent price, but If I cant then ill go with the Sylvania daylight tubes. Since as you say, the arcadia bulbs are designed to go together and I only have 1 slot for a bulb unfortunately.

Byron- I didn't even see your post! OOOPS! I do plan on changing the gravel to a smaller grain size as you recommend. I have a few yoyo loaches and a bn pleco, there the only bottom dwellers I have
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Do your foresee any problems with them species and the small gravel? Im thinking the pleco's big mouth could be an issue? Im no expert though. the tanks already established- has been for 2 years now I believe, or 2 and a half. Also, when I take up the current gravel to make way for ther new one, theres going to be A LOT of dirt and stuff coming up right? Any tips on minimising that so I don't have an ammonia spike or something dreadful like that? Thanks!
 
Whichever you decide re the tube, remember it is T8.  All these tubes come in other types which won't fit.  Sometimes it is worth taking the existing tube with you to get the right length too.
 
Before I get to changing the substrate, this is a 15 gallon tank, so presumably 24 inches in length.  This is not sufficient space for YoYo Loaches.  I realize they are small when you acquire them (usually well under 2 inches in stores here) but they will grow if they have sufficient space, and attain 6 inches.  Plus, they absolutely must have a group, five or six minimum, maybe four will work, but there is still insufficient space here no matter how many.  If you have a larger tank, at least four feet length, OK; but if not, I would seriously consider re-homing the loaches.  And before you ask, there are no other loaches of this type (including the "dwarf" species) that will work in a 15g.  Kuhli loaches could, again in a group of 3-5.
 
The pleco will be OK, make sure there is some real wood (i.e., not fake) for him to graze; this is a necessary aspect of their feeding and digestion.
 
Now to the substrate.  I always tear the tank down completely when I change the substrate.  Not only is this much easier, but it means you are not rushed.  If there are fish in the tank now, they can go to a "temporary" tank.  It is a good idea to have a spare tank on hand for emergencies (and quarantining new fish), and a 10g would work for this.  As for the new substrate, I would recommend sand as in this small a tank it will give you better visual appeal and not be an issue for corys as I think I mentioned before.  The loaches would prefer sand too, though not in a 15g unfortunately.
 
Byron.
 
Yeah I had a feeling that would come up about the yoyo loaches... :( I;m working on finding a home for the as we speak unfortunately :( They grow really quick don't they? And the pleco has a pretty big bit of wood at the back and he spends most of his time upside down on that lol. And when the substrate finally arrives, I will do as you said and put the fish in a separate tank. Only issue is.. I DONT HAVE ONE! That means im gonna have to go buy one. Oh wait, I'd have to cycle it wouldn't I?
 
You don't need an actual tank. A plastic storage box would do just as well. If you get one without a lid, cover it with an old towel or something like that. And you won't need to cycle it, just put the filter in the tank/box along with the fish and as much water as you can transfer without stirring up any muck from the bottom.
 
Prepare your sand in advance as it can take quite a few rinses to get it clean. By doing this it won't take long to change the substrate.
 
Essjay is quite correct.  Just make sure you do not use a plastic container used for anything that might now harm the fish.  Aside from this, it is worth having a spare 10g tank, for hospital, quarantine, etc.  They are very inexpensive, just the tank, though a simple glass cover is advisable.  Fish do jump.
 

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