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Beginner - Need Advice

Amnesia180

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Good morning, all!

Firstly, "Hello" from Gloucestershire... I'm totally new to keeping fish and currently have a coldwater minow and a goldfish in a small coldwater tank. We love them to pieces, and whilst they're not "serious" fish, we certainly look after them and are happy they are there.

However, I'm looking to start getting into this a little bit more seriously.

I'm joining the RAF in approximately 5 weeks, so the Mrs will be looking after them whilst I'm away. (I'll be home at weekends).

So, before we commit long term, I'm looking for some advice. The space we have for a fish tank is at the back of the room, but it faces two large windows. It might sound like a silly question, but can the fish be subject to natural light?
How often does the water need changing, and how often would you "clean them out" so-to-speak.

I understand I'll need a light, heater, filter, etc. There are some great startup tanks that come with everything to get you started.... so that is the route I'll probably go down.

Thanks in advance,
Amnesia
 
Welcome to the forum!

CYCLING is a word you will firstly need to read a lot about and you can do so in the beginners section. This is the most critical part of setting up a new tank.

Going away in 5 weeks may not coincide very well with the cycling process unless your wife is happy to do this. Have a read through the material and come back with any questions.

Tanks next to windows can be problematic due to algae. Also, in the summer months the additional heat may raise your tank temperature to levels that the fish you have do not like - but that will depend on the type of fish you want to keep.

A general rule on water changes is 25% every week. Giving the tank a good 'vacuum' for excess muck every month or so - again, this will largely depend on the size of the tank and the fish you keep.
 
Thanks for the reply.
I've just done some research on cycling.

I am buying the tank second hand from someone I know, and it is coming complete with everything including some sand/gravel that was used with their previous fish. So that should still have some bacteria on it etc (but would it be best to throw it away and start from scratch).

The cycling (from what I have read) should take a couple of weeks, so that gives me time to take my time with it before I go away. It sounds quite complicated, but if I print off the "fishless cycling" I will follow it step by step and the course of time it takes.

I've done a bit of reading up, and it is not directly infront of the window, it is just in line with it at the back of the room. So whilst the sun does shine through the window, I'm hopinh it would not cause a problem. Alternatively, I can put it to the side of the window where it will be closer to it but out of the sunlight.

Another question, this is a 3ft tank. What sort of energy consumption would a fish tank of this size use (sounds silly, but if they're very expensive to run!).
 
I am buying the tank second hand from someone I know, and it is coming complete with everything including some sand/gravel that was used with their previous fish. So that should still have some bacteria on it etc (but would it be best to throw it away and start from scratch).
if the tank is currently still running with fish in it, and you can set it up straight away after buying it - the filter will already be 'cycled' for the amount of fish that is in it. If it has been weeks since it was used it is quite likely the bacteria has died (no food source) but certainly no need to throw it away.
The cycling (from what I have read) should take a couple of weeks, so that gives me time to take my time with it before I go away. It sounds quite complicated, but if I print off the "fishless cycling" I will follow it step by step and the course of time it takes.
it is a bit danuting when you first realize what is required, but this forum will happily help you. Many people start a 'journal' which shows their progress and ask for feedback from the members.

Another question, this is a 3ft tank. What sort of energy consumption would a fish tank of this size use (sounds silly, but if they're very expensive to run!).
freshwater tanks are not expensive to run in terms of electricity. Pennies per day.
 
Thank you for the help :)

I do not want it to sound like we want a quick fix or anything and that I'm gonig to rush through the process. My Fiance will be here to look after them when I am not (and she is just as keen as I am for tropical fish), and I'll be back at weekends to do the water change etc.

I think I will keep a journal from when the tank arrives. I do not know if there are still fish in the tank, I will find out tonight when I collect everything.

I'll report back later on.

In the meantime, if anyone has any further advice, I'd be happy to hear it.

Thanks for the warm, friendly and informative welcome :)

Thanks,
Amnesia!
 
Agree with the advice from ZZ. Algae and overheating will be important considerations so keep thinking about and working on that aspect. The proper cycling of your filter (and thus your tank, as we sometimes say) is also of critical importance and as much for your learning as a family as it is for the first tank of fish! It is one of the bases of good fishkeeping knowledge.

In your case several major branches are still under discussion: you may end up fish-in cycling, or fishless cycling with mature media still in the filter or simply fishless cycling from scratch. Each of these three things is very different from the other at least in some ways. It is also important that you not misunderstand the time-frames involved. As ZZ said, you might be already cycled, IF you have living bacterial colonies still in the filter media. If the aquarium is established (say, 6 months old or older with owner not having changed filter media) and you get it all with fish or just after fish have been re-homed then you will be working with good bacteria and will only need to "qualify" them as having survived the transition. If fish are there then your test results over a week or so of ammonia and nitrite(NO2) will reveal how the filter is working. If there are not fish then you'll qualify the filter by subjecting it to simple household ammonia dosing, per the frequent discussions you'll begin noticing here on the beginners forum. If the filter somehow comes -without- mature media and you are starting from scratch and can not get mature media from another source then your idea of cycling time is incorrect, it can often take between a month and 70 days for a from-scratch fishless cycle to correctly complete.

One of the very first things you'll need with be a good liquid-reagent based testing kit. Salifert makes the very best if you can find those (they are a bit more complicated in that you buy individual kits for the things you need, which will be ammonia, nitrite(NO2), nitrate(NO3) and pH at a minimum. Many of us in the past have used the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and this has worked well. It's really the -knowledge- of the timing of things and little yes/no hints from the kit that are important and not so much the -values- that the kit is returning ultimately, but developing that skill does take a while and often requires sorting out help from the members.

Other basic but major skills are learning about the weekly substrate-clean-water-change and the maintenance of the filter system. Your idea to keep a log is important. I always keep simple spiral-bound aquarium notebooks with diaries (that are usually daily during the first months of a tank) and record virtually all that happens to the tank and my other thoughts and observations. I've found (assuming no house fire of course) this to be not subject to the whims of computers and forums etc. and I like the quiet non-computer feel of using my notebook during tank cleaning mornings.

When fish draw water through their gills, they release waste ammonia directly to the water. This is quite different from land-bound humans who need to retain waste for a while to extract the precious water. In the wild, millions of gallons of fresh water immediately dilute this ammonia and keep the fish safe from it's toxic effect. Ammonia, even in tiny concentrations, can quickly lead to permanent gill damage. The first species of bacteria in our biofilter (we like to call them the A-Bacs because they process ammonia) will convert ammonia (NH3) in to nitrite(NO2), which, unfortunately, is also a deadly toxic chemical to fish. Nitrite(NO2) can attach to fish red blood cells just like oxygen and when it does, can result in a process the destroys the red blood cell, suffocating the fish while causing permanent nerve and brain damage. The second set of bacteria (the N-Bacs) will process nitrite(NO2) into nitrate(NO3) which is also not great for our fish but is safe enough to let build up slowly and be controlled by our regular water changes and other maintenance of the tank.

This "Nitrogen Cycle" that I've briefly described is the beginning part of the kind of more complete understanding about "cycling" that we like all our beginners to work on as they come through the beginner section. It is not all about simply getting past that first cycling of the first filter. It is about gaining the kind of hands-on feel that prepares you to handle problems and emergencies in your future years as a household taking care of freshwater tanks.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your stay at TFF and get off to a good start. The members are great and will take good care of you.

~~waterdrop~~ :)
 
Ahh the superbly thorough Waterdrop - I'm always impressed with your effort and dedication to help new hobbyists!....myself included!
 
Ahh the superbly thorough Waterdrop - I'm always impressed with your effort and dedication to help new hobbyists!....myself included!

WD is a right trooper! I waould have fallen asleep halfway through writin that! Top work.

Even now ive been reading up on cycling for months, and have read the EVERYTHING in this forum on it, he still manages to come out with stuff not mentioned....

and :hi: Amnesia - I was going to throw in my two pence worth to help, but then saw WD's comprehensive post.... lol
 
Thank you everyone, and Waterdrop...

That indepth post was a great read, and I feel a little more "fishy" having read it :)
Reading about the importance of bacteria the cycle this goes through (as you have said) will ultimately lead to me keeping happier fish and doing it properly.

If it takes longer than the month, then so be it - I'm happy that my partner will be as involved as I am everyday and she will be able to continue this cycle if I am not here. Unfortunately, it means I miss the day we add fish - However, we'll have a game plan worked out with quantites before hand.

I will be seeing the tank tonight, and I'll get a good feel as to how old the bacteria might be etc.

On Sunday I removed all the gravel from my smaller tank which was the two coldwater fish in it (I will be keeping them in their little tank, they look happy and settled to be honest). The gravel is still damp and has been kept in a seal proof bag. Would this mean I could add that gravel to help begin the cycle process and remove later on?

I will definitely post back this evening in detail with age of things, if the filter has ever been changed, whether there are fish to bring with me etc. Once you and I have that knowledge I think I'll be in a clearer understanding of what needs to be done.

As Waterdrop has said, some of these cycles seem incredibly different.


On another note, our property has single glazing. We live in a listed building and it has tall sash windows which we can't replace. There is good circulation to the air, and by closing the curtains to one of these windows will stop direct sunlight hitting where the tank is likely to be. I'm assuming natural light is OK for the fish, i.e: We don't put them in a cupboard and close the door. But is it mainly direct sunlight we have to be aware of?

Many thanks!
Amnesia
 
If it takes longer than the month, then so be it - I'm happy that my partner will be as involved as I am everyday and she will be able to continue this cycle if I am not here. Unfortunately, it means I miss the day we add fish - However, we'll have a game plan worked out with quantites before hand.
or just keep adding ammonia until you are available to add the fish.

On Sunday I removed all the gravel from my smaller tank which was the two coldwater fish in it (I will be keeping them in their little tank, they look happy and settled to be honest). The gravel is still damp and has been kept in a seal proof bag. Would this mean I could add that gravel to help begin the cycle process and remove later on?
does this tank have a filter in it? If so then it could be used to help kick-start your new filter, if not then what fish are you keeping in there? ALL fish require a filter.


On another note, our property has single glazing. We live in a listed building and it has tall sash windows which we can't replace. There is good circulation to the air, and by closing the curtains to one of these windows will stop direct sunlight hitting where the tank is likely to be. I'm assuming natural light is OK for the fish, i.e: We don't put them in a cupboard and close the door. But is it mainly direct sunlight we have to be aware of?

natural light is not detrimental to the fish, but it can cause you isseus with algae which may bloom and coat your tank given the right conditions, hence why direct sunlight is avoided if possible
 
Hi All,

I've got the tank. Its 3ft and in OK condition. There is some stubborn algae on the lid and some faint stainage around and on the glass. I've cleaned the majority of it up the best I can (don't want to use detergents etc on the inside).

We have a big bag of the rock/gravel and fake plants that were used in it, they were only bagged up 2 days ago and are still moist. There is a bit of algae on the gravel.

The filter is also used and in good condition.

Before I go ahead and fill up with water to start the cycle, am I right to assume that it's got a kick start because of the gravel and filter being reused etc?

Also, what product (if any) can I use to naturally clear up the algae/stains on the inside?

Thanks!
Amnesia
 
Yes, gravel that has been in a mature tank and then kept wet for the transfer can not hurt. There will be some autotrophic bacteria on the gravel surfaces but of course it won't want to come loose and float to your filter, so as such it is not anything like getting actual wet filter media that is still intact. You say you have the filter but it's not usually the filter we aquarists get excited about but the "mud" inside it lol.

Regardless, I don't hear anything bad and indeed you seem to be off to a good start.

About light, well just imagine the animals in nature. I quite like the days when splashes of brilliant sunlight sparkle in to the room and hit the tank here and there. I rather think my fish enjoy it too (they are like kids playing about after all.) On the other hand, you detect us all getting a bit serious about it because tanks that get a daily dose of significant direct sun are quite likely to have algae getting out of control, so it's good to pay attention to what the curtains and habits are going to be. Algae can be serious business in this hobby.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Thanks for the advice.

Where we have it positioned is next to a window, but it is in the corner and no direct sunlight hits it, apart from the side first thing in the morning.

There seems to be a few "scum" type marks along the seals, but this is an old Clear-Seal tank. We've filled it with water, got the water bubbles flowing and the filter is on. The thermometer (I think) is switched on.

Just to go through my equipment.

It is a 3ft Clear-Seal tank. Not one of their newer ones. All the 'appliances' seem to be attached to one mains unit (apart from the filter).
This is not mine, but is similar:
67854330.jpg


The filter is seperate and doesn't seem to have much "gunk" around the the sponge bit inside, infact - it is pretty green! It has a setting betwen 1 and 3, but it is on a dial so it can be all these variations inbetween.

The thermometer has a red nib on the top that I can change set different temps. It's currently on 80F (approximately).

The light is pretty bright and is controlled on its own and also the main switchboard thing that everything is plugged into. It does seem to be taking a long time to heat up though, but I'm guessing this is due to the amount of water in there!

I'm going to get a testing kit tonight to see how much bacteria etc is already in there, and from there - I'll start making adjustments as necessary.

Thanks,
Amnesia
 
A couple of questions, whilst I remember:

I've currently got the filter on the left side of the tank and the thermometer on the right hand side of the tank, Should I be moving it to the same side as the filter so it can push the heated water around more effectively?

Also, would it be worth getting one of those stick on thermometers as it's one thing the setting the temperature and another thing to read it? And also where would that be best placed?

Should the bubbles be left on constantly? And how long would I leave the light on when I eventually get fish?

I'm going to the LSF this evening to collect a testing kit and some water treatment.
 

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