bearded betta

[guppler]

I guess I really need to play around with my cameras and figure out how to post pics.
I'll have to describe.
just to make a short story long, I got this betta at a wedding reception. They intended to have all dark red fish, but I chose this guy because of the hints of turquise, and named hin Sparkle. One day I thought it looked like he was swimming around with his mouth open, so I looked closer and realised his mouth was'n stuch open, but there was something on his chin. Pretty soon I was calling him "Sparkle Tutenkamen" because he had a nice little King Tut beard. Now his beard is bushier. It's dark red, even a little darker than most of the rest of him, and it looks kind of wrinkly , like the Wen on an Oranda goldfish. He acts the same as always and his beard has been growing for months, so I don't think it's any kind of problem. Frosty had a cyst of some kind in his belly, so that he almost resembled a balloon molly for a while, but the cyst went away, and came back less centered, and he finally died, and I'm not even sure that was related. This beard looks totally different.
I wonder if it might be hereditary if I bred him, but that would be hard to check, mostly because it didn't even show up until I'd had him about a year. I do happen to have a female named Amythest right now, but I have not bred any bettas yet and the idea of finding places for all the boys as they mature is keeping me from trying it. If I had to keep them a year or more just to find out if it was hereditary, it might not be worth it, unless i decided it was worth focussing on and it showed up better than I expect in the kids.
Does anyone think it isn't a harmless phenomenon?
Anybody think It is worth breeding him and I should find the space to try it?

 

[SRC]

No, it's not.
You aren't suposed to breed animals with genetic mutations. Would you breed a dog that had 3 eyes, just to see if the puppies would come out that way?

 

[iron maiden fan]

actually you would breed a dog with 3 eyes and you might not have heard this but the reason we have long finned bettas is because of a genetic mutation

 

[SRC]

That is absurd...I would not breed a dog with 3 eyes are you looney?

I'm not expert on turning wild bettas into the version we have today...but I don't consider the long fins or colors mutations..but more traits that they normally don't posses in the wild.

And why would you want to breed a betta with deformed gills? Because from what this guy is saying..that's what this is...deformed gill plates hanging down. What good could ever come from that...it's like those cats they breed with the short front legs (munchkins).

 

[Elise]

That is absurd...I would not breed a dog with 3 eyes are you looney?

For some reason that just struck me as insanely funny; not the dog part, the looney part!



ps. While we're at it, what about Brachicephalic dogs (ie pushed up nose dogs) they often have a myriad of breathing, eye, and eating problems. Lots of brachis have to have surgery to remove the soft pallat or they will die because it is too large for the smashed up face people have bred to give them. Poor things, and they snore like mad!

 

[RandomWiktor]

I would have to politely disagree with different fin types not starting as genetic mutations. They may not be harmful ones, but anything that is a deviation from the species' norm is a mutation. The whole concept of domesticated animals is selecting certain mutations until you have a "type" that you favor, then breeding that type to create something different than its wild cousin. So, most betta fin types probably came from a mutation in the species that was selectively bred into them to exaggerate the feature.
However, I do not think that breeding a betta with a deformity of the gills is a good idea. It could really cause problems if the train is exagerated in offspring, or if the same gene causes a different mutation of the gills that results not in a cute beard, but in something more harmful. That, and being from a wedding, I'm guessing your fish is a petstore purchased VT, which means you know nothing about its genetic history, and thus any problems it might give its offspring.

I will say that I really don't agree with many domesticated animal types; I think some fancy goldfish, some betta tail types, bracheocephallic dogs and cats, munchkin cats, and meat turkeys have all been selected for traits that hinder them in life. Huge finnage can decrease the animal's mobility and stress the body, flat faces contribute to heat stroke and respritory problems, short legs are bad on the back, and massive weight/growth creates crippling arthritits and leg deformities.

 

[rollntider]

if all he has is like a fin that is growing from under his chin, i think it would be sorta wrong, but we have been breeding animals because of genetic mutations and traits, the argument for the dogs with nasal problems is a perfect example. or breeding giant bettas....etc...personally I would not do it, but it is done all the time....and I would not condemn you if you did breed it because of something different about it...

 

[iron maiden fan]

That is absurd...I would not breed a dog with 3 eyes are you looney?

I'm not expert on turning wild bettas into the version we have today...but I don't consider the long fins or colors mutations..but more traits that they normally don't posses in the wild.

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If you would not breed a dog with 3 eyes you are a "looney"

and while you might not consider it a genetic mutation that is what it is, a genetic mutation that caused a short finned fish to grow abnormally large fins

 

[Synirr]

Yep, when long fins first appeared in bettas it was most definitely a mutation, just not a detrimental one. A spontaneous change (aka mutation) in the genes of the original plakats produced the trait
BTW, munchkin cats have all their legs shortened, not just the front ones, so they look kinda like the feline version of dachshunds. "twisty cats" are the ones with horrible deformed front legs.

 

[guppler]

Perhaps i should clarify. Boy, I wish i knew how to post a pic. or even get a good one. Sparkle definitely does not have a gill problem. His beard is actually just barely below his lower lip and only about 3-4 milimeters wide by about the same length. It's nowhere near his gills, and it isn't at all like a fin either. I think it's more related to skin tissue. My biology teacher likes fish. Maybe I'll show him some day and see what he thinks.
One reason I included the part about Frosty was because whatever he had, it looked like it was probably not something good to breed. But if you just happenned to see bettas in a store or at a fish show with tiny little bearsd just below the lower lip, how many people would wamt one? Like I said, this doesn't seem to be an impairment at all, and most fancy goldfish are impaired compared to the more common types.
As for the people who are afraid of mutations in general, well the fact is, mutations happen. Some are bad, but some are good. That's what breeding is all about. In fact, if you believe in evolution or adaptation of species, that's all dependent on mutations too. One reason I post things like this is to see how the critter would be viewed by hobbyists if I did breed them. I'm aware of conflicts over the twistycats and munchkins and stuff, and I haven't personally met one of them, but polydactyl cats are pretty neat, from what I've seen. Even Manx have asosciated potential health problems. ( I know because my friend had some and one of the kittens had to be put down because he couldn't move his back legs.) But people still breed them.
(Actually one of my cats does have relatively short legs, but I don't think she'd qualify as a munchkin. The long hair and her fraidy cat posture probably just make her look shortlegged compared to her relatively long legged and much more confident sister.)
I probably won't breed Sparkle, but I would like to show him off a little, and it's interesting to see what people think. I wonder if He's getting old for breeding anyway. I really don't know much about betta breeding. I have read some, but I don't even know exactly how old he is.

 

[iron maiden fan]

could someone please help guppler post a pic because I'm dying to see this fish and please gupppler if you don't intend to breed tis fish you should at least lend it to a breeder to see if this mutation breeds true.

 

[Synirr]

Even Manx have asosciated potential health problems. ( I know because my friend had some and one of the kittens had to be put down because he couldn't move his back legs.) But people still breed them.

If you breed two manx cats together one out of every four of the resulting kittens will be stillborn or spontaneously aborted. The manx trait is actually a lethal dominant; one copy of the gene and the cat is manx, two copies and it's dead. Although I like the look of manx cats, the skeletal deformities and related problems (such as lack of bowel control) make me question the morality of purposefully breeding them. Just because it happens doesn't necessarily mean it's right.

I wonder if He's getting old for breeding anyway.

If you got him from a pet shop, chances are he's already past his prime. Normally, bettas found in pet shops are at least 6 months old.

I'm wondering if perhaps his 'beard' is a tumor of some sort? You did say it has been growing...

 

[guppler]

could someone please help guppler post a pic because I'm dying to see this fish and please gupppler if you don't intend to breed tis fish you should at least lend it to a breeder to see if this mutation breeds true.

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Ok I'll take himto school with me the next time I don't have a field trip and see what my teacher thinks. If it is just a tumor or something it probably won't breed true. Then there's the time involved. I had him almost a year bfore this trait showed up. Oh, I just thought of another way to describe the beard. It's almost like a tiny raspbery. It might actually be fun to try the project at school, because then more people could help, and maybe they would let me use some space between the critters they already have, or maybe I would find somebody with more space to devote to raising the kids. I could try to find a local betta club.

 

[Synirr]

Don't tell me you're actually thinking of breeding him? Bettas are past their prime at 1 year, and if you've already had him for a year he's probably almost 2 by now! His "beard" sounds exactly like a tumor, in which case it won't breed true anyway, and at worst you'll end up with a lot of fry with increased chances of developing cancer themselves as they age. There's also an increased chance of deformities in the fry when you breed older fish. There is absolutely no reason you should breed him and plenty of reasons you shouldn't. Think it over.

 

[Elise]

Yes, genetic mutation is a common everyday thing, but we force it by physically choosing the breeding partners instead of nature weeding out the weak.

We had Cooper the Pooper, a manx who had no control over his bowls. He has since passed on. A Feline rescue down the road had Garfield who had no control over his back legs. He lived to be over 2 or 3 years and was just fine. He just had to use his front legs alot. Animals can adapt amazingly to get over the crap some people give them by breeding for the worst.


And Listen to Synirr, she knows what she's saying!