Balas Dying

[Stacy84]

I have a sixty gallon tank orginally purchased to have balas and some other more aggressive fish. Right now it has two rainbow fish, five tiger barbs, 1 reed fish, 1 golden gourami, 1 rainbow shark, 1 algae eater, 1 dwarf new world south american chichlid, and 1 featherfin squeaker and 1 bala. From the very beginning my balas kept getting sick and eventually dying of something that the five different pet stores i went to said must be bacterial. But my other fish were all fine...no signs of stress. I had success with two balas for two months until in the last three weeks i have been having spontaneous nitrate outbreaks of 20ppm. I think they started when someone was feeding my fish when i was out of town...but since then i have been doing successful large water changes and the nitrate is going down...but I lost one bala and the other seems close to dying as well even though all my other fish are fine. I can't figure out what is going on with the balas. I could understand if it was just when the nitrate spiked but they seem to die even when the water quality is good. Right now the nitrate is at about 10 ppm ammonia 0, nitrite 0, ph 7.1. I have also moved my tank so all the water was drained and i thought whatever might be in my tank that was causing balas to suffer would be gone. Is it possible that a bacteria is "caught" in my biowheel and that balas are really sensitive to it? or maybe in the gravel? Any help would be great! I really want to be able to raise this variety of fish...but right now i am starting to lose hope.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

How long has the tank been set up and did you cycle it with the current fish or do a fishless cycle before you put them in?
What are the symptoms of the sharks, particually before they died? Anything like white/stringy poop, cotton growths or sores on the body, mouth rot, red/inflamed anus, scales sticking out, gasping at the surface, rapid breathing etc?

Nitrates spikes can be attributed to things like dead fish in the tank, cycling tank conditions, over feeding, lack of live planting etc. However, what have the nitrite and ammonia stats been like? Has any risen above 0 at any point?

You say someone else was feeding your fish, like a little brother or sister or someone? If anyone is overfeeding the fish, the bala's would certainly be affected, although i would also expect to see the other fish affected too- is there any uneaten food in the tank? What do you feed your fish and how much on average?
Edit: also, have you lost any other types of fish as well? What has been the total ammount of deaths in your tank since it has been set up and have you replaced or added any fish to the tank since the first death?

 

[Stacy84]

My tank was cycled fishless for a month before any fish were added. The balas start to just sit in a corner with fins clamped. The breathing seems normal, the color is lighter and there is slight reddish color on the fins but not the belly. The scales are all normal, no sores or anything else unusual. Even the poop is normal. They tend not to eat though and its like they just slowly fade away. It also kind of looks like they get a lighter whitish tint on their scales.
I have live plants in my tank and I rarely find ammonia or nitrite in the tank and it is very low levels almost always lower than 5 ppm. I cleaned the tank really well doing over a 20% water change so there isn't any uneaten food, infact i started feeding every other day to lower the nitrate.
I feed my fish nutrafin flakes and catfish wafers as their main diet. For treats they get freeze dried blood worms, brine shrimp or frozen shrimp and peas. Usually only a few pinches, stopping when i see the fish food start to go uneaten. About 90 seconds.
I lost a catfish due to being picked on. I also lost a rainbow shark which reacted very much like the balas except it would swim straight into the bottom of the tank, but other than that same signs no trauma or obvious illness. However since then I have puchased another one who is thriving and happy. No other fish have died execept several balas due to bacterial or illness only from predatory behaviour of my other fish.

There are live plants in my tank

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

In my opinion, your balas may be succumbing to stress because they are not agressive and could very well be the least 'dominant' type fish in your tank right now. You have an assortment of fish that I do not hear about very often and you might not be well advised to keep them all in the same tank. Balas are also going to end up getting too big for your tank, especially with all the other tankmates.

According to my test kit, your nitrates are slightly high, but I would keep testing your water regularly. How often and what method are you using for your water changes? What type of substrate are you using? I ask because your statement as to there not being any uneaten food would be hard for you to accurately predict if you use gravel.

Rainbow sharks are definatly more bottom dwelling fish and so you could have lost one due to having to compete for food since they (at least mine) wont typically go to the surface to eat. It is unadvisable to keep more than one rainbow shark in the same tank as they will be more territorial and aggressive towards their own kind.

What type of algea eater do you have? I ask because some people refer to plecostomus as algea eaters, but there are also chineese algea eaters, siameese algea eaters, and others... If it is a chineese algea eater, they can be very aggressive and tend to be nocturnal, so you may not be witnessing all of the aggression that is taking place in your tank.

My first tank held 6 bala sharks, which was a mistake due to their potential size, but I kept them for around 3 months and they turned out to be very hearty and easy to care for. I had none die and I actually moved the tank three times, twice due to windows and heater/ac ducts, and once because of a move to a different house. All survived and so I am assuming that they should be able to live during a slight raise in nitrates.

It does sound like your feeding is appropriate, however, like I said before, your stocking may be leading you into a situation in which a big competition for food is happening. Balas will love the blood worms and shrimp, and you should notice them 'talking' while eating at the surface. Mine where very loud at dinner time and would be a good guage for you to see how much they are actually consuming. How often do you feed and when?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

My tank was cycled fishless for a month before any fish were added. The balas start to just sit in a corner with fins clamped. The breathing seems normal, the color is lighter and there is slight reddish color on the fins but not the belly. The scales are all normal, no sores or anything else unusual. Even the poop is normal. They tend not to eat though and its like they just slowly fade away. It also kind of looks like they get a lighter whitish tint on their scales.
I have live plants in my tank and I rarely find ammonia or nitrite in the tank and it is very low levels almost always lower than 5 ppm. I cleaned the tank really well doing over a 20% water change so there isn't any uneaten food, infact i started feeding every other day to lower the nitrate.

You need to get a more accurate test kit as 5ppm of nitrites or ammonia is lethal for pretty much any fish, you need a test kit that tells you the exact stats of the tank (the test tube type ones are generally much more accurate than the paper strip test ones). If either nitrites or ammonia are present in the tank, it either means the tank wasn't properly cycled, or the tank has experienced conditions sincethe cycle which has made it mini cycle again.

If there is a redish tint to the fins, almost like a bloodshot sort of color or appearance, this could be septicemia which is a stress related condition (can be brought on by things like fluctuating water quality or temp in the tank, bullying from other fish, bacterial infection etc). A healthy bala shark should look like this;

http/www.aquariacentral.com/pictures/bala.jpg

Fading of color in fish is often a symptom of stress, while a whitish tint to their scales can be over slime coat production brought on by just pure stress or as a reaction to things like irritants in the tank like not desirable water quality conditions.

Do you use dechlorinator/water condition on your water that you put into the tank? How do you go about cleaning the filter sponge? What is the current temp in the tank and have you used any meds or other chemicals on the tank at all?

I feed my fish nutrafin flakes and catfish wafers as their main diet. For treats they get freeze dried blood worms, brine shrimp or frozen shrimp and peas. Usually only a few pinches, stopping when i see the fish food start to go uneaten. About 90 seconds.
I lost a catfish due to being picked on. I also lost a rainbow shark which reacted very much like the balas except it would swim straight into the bottom of the tank, but other than that same signs no trauma or obvious illness. However since then I have puchased another one who is thriving and happy. No other fish have died execept several balas due to bacterial or illness only from predatory behaviour of my other fish.

There are live plants in my tank

I cannot comment on all of your stocking are there are some fish that i am really not familiar with at all, however Tommy Gunnz may be right that some of your fish in particular in your stocking may well be contributing to your sharks condition.

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Good points Tokis! My intuition on this thread is that the water parameters are not very accurately reported and I strongly suggest the use of 'test tube' type testing kits as the strips are easily ruined by storing them improperly. Even if you follow the storing instructions to a T, you cannot be sure how they were treated before you bought them, so to be on the safe side, go with the test tubes. They are actually less expensive if you figure how many times you can test with one of those kits versus the twenty or so test strips that come in a bottle. (Dont know the exact numbers on how many come with each since I dont use them).

I really want to say that IF the water is like you say Stacie, it is your stocking. HOWEVER, simply saying that you cycled your tank for a month before adding fish, does not mean that your tank was ready for fish.

Your best bet is to offer as much information as you can on all attributes on your tank (past and present) so someone can help you. Usually it is weird to see just one species of fish mysteriously dying off in a tank as long as they are all freshwater. If you were having a mini-cycle, I would suspect that all of your fish would be having problems, but that is not to say it isnt the case. There will always be some trace of nitrates in the tank, but it should be less than you report.

It is also possible that your plants are adding to the mini-cycle theory. If you are not clearing out dead stems or leaves, this could add to the bio load and create a cycle type situation.

So many things could be going on. Instead of speculating for hours, I will wait for more info.

 

[vancouver]

balas are schooling fish.. theyre probably getting stressed and dying..

They also grow too large for a 60g tank.. that might have factored in but if they're small I doubt it.

 

[Stacy84]

I use the test tube test kits made from aquarium pharmaceuticals. The few times I have ever seen ammonia and or nitrate in my tank have only occured two or three times in the year i have had my tank. I change my water weekly twenty percent using novaqua and amquel in appropriate amounts. (the last two changes were more like 35% because of the nitrate) Other than the conditioner I have only used quick cure twice to rid myself of ick and treated pencillian in my ten gallon sick tank. I also add small amounts of freshwater salt to my aquarium every water change.(according to instructions on box). No other chemical or additives have been used. When I do clean I vacuum my gravel substrate and remove dead plant matter. ( I also removed dead plants when feeding if i notice them).
I have an appropriatley sized penguin cartridge filter. I rinse the cartridges weekly and replace them monthly. The water temp stays between 79 and 81 depending on exterior temperature.
All of my balas have been relatively small ( under 3 inches) and I try to purchase and keep them in groups of three or more. When I feed I do here them "talking" and it looks like they usually get adequate amounts of food.
The algae eater is a common pleco and verry small (<2 in).
When i started my tank i did all of the tests with the test tube kits (nitrate, nitrite, ammonia and pH) before adding any fish. i started with plants and then the first fish I added were three balas and three tiger barbs. Much later ( a month) I added the rainbow shark....and I continued with this process.

If there is anything else you can think of please let me know!! Thanks so much for taking the time to read all this!

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

Q- are you rinsing the tank filter cartridges under TAP water or TANK water?

Just trying to get a grasp on what is going on ;-}

 

[Stacy84]

Q- are you rinsing the tank filter cartridges under TAP water or TANK water?

Just trying to get a grasp on what is going on ;-}

I rinse the cartridge under warm tap water.

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

Ok, well that could be sending your tank into a mini-cycle (or even a full fledged cycle) as the chlorine in tap water will kill the beneficial bacteria that builds up in your filter. It's suggested that you just rinse it out in your old tankwater when you do your water changes, or if you really have to rinse it in clean water dechlorinate it first. That could add to a little of the stress your balas are experiencing I think. The other thing that I was concerned by was adding the aquarium salt as some species just really can't handle it, but I'm not knowledgable enough about your tank stocking to be able to tell you much more, maybe someone else can chime in?

 

[Stacy84]

Ok, well that could be sending your tank into a mini-cycle (or even a full fledged cycle) as the chlorine in tap water will kill the beneficial bacteria that builds up in your filter. It's suggested that you just rinse it out in your old tankwater when you do your water changes, or if you really have to rinse it in clean water dechlorinate it first. That could add to a little of the stress your balas are experiencing I think. The other thing that I was concerned by was adding the aquarium salt as some species just really can't handle it, but I'm not knowledgable enough about your tank stocking to be able to tell you much more, maybe someone else can chime in?

That is a good point about the chlorine in tap water...I had thought about it hurting the fish and thought it was so minute it wouldn't hurt them but I never thought about the bacteria....

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

Easy mistake to make, some places even TELL you to do it in tap water! Good luck with the rest of the issues, hope you figure it out soon (I'm not much help with the rest, sorry!)

 

[Stacy84]

Easy mistake to make, some places even TELL you to do it in tap water! Good luck with the rest of the issues, hope you figure it out soon (I'm not much help with the rest, sorry!)

Hey I appreciate it greatly! Every little bit helps!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I would also stop using the salt as it is unesarsary for your fish- true freshwater do not need salt, and aquarium/tonic salt (which is not the same as marine salt) holds no bennefets for fish at all.

Marine/pure salt kills off parasites in water, so some people use it in small quantities on freshwater fish for long periods of time on freshwater fish to try and prevent them from getting parasites, but all this does is put a lot of stress on the freshwater fishes organs and eventually makes it sick from some other desease due to the stress it puts on the body.

You should only use salt on freshwater fish for treating specific problems like fungal skin infections, and even so, only bath them in a salt and tank water solution for a short period of time separate from the from main fish tank. Tolerance to salt varies from fish to fish, for some completely-salt intolerant fish it kills them very quickly, while on others its safe to use for something like a salt bath, but its never good to use it constantly in the tank for any true freshwater fish.