Bacterial Additives...

[eaglesaquarium]

Well the product you added certainly seems to have shortened phase 2, although you can not be 100% certain how much of each bacteria you introduced with your tap water. Does the BB you used claim to contain both species of bacteria ?

I agree that there is no way of knowing how much bacteria was added by the tap, but based on the other cycles, I think the most plausible explanation would be that the BB actually has worked to some degree.

There are some other major factors to consider as well. I used FAR too much filtration for the tank. I am using a Penguin 350 AND an Azoo 7 sponge filter on a 10 gallon tank. Each filter is rated at 50+ gallons. Therefore, the amount of surface agitation is probably far higher than the standard, giving far more oxygen to the bacteria than "normal" plus the surface area available for the bacteria to colonize is huge by comparison to the actual amount of ammonia in the tank. (If I were not planning/have ordered a 56 gallon tank, I wouldn't have gotten such big filters, but I am so I did. These filters are going into my 56 gallon as soon as it comes, and they will need to be "recycled" to account for the even larger bioload that the 56 gallon will hold. But, that should be a very quick cycle, since I will basically be lifting one filter out of the 10 gallon and plopping it into the 56.

As has been pointed out, this is not a scientific experiment, but rather than a log of an event. I've tried to be as transparent about everything that has been done as possible. I think my experience shows that there is a definite plausibility to SafeStart. It would be beneficial for others to post similar logs for a more "typical" cycle.


This is the claim made by SafeStart:

Main description:
* Aquarium water conditioner reduces dangerous ammonia and nitrite
* Contains live bacteria to accelerate aquarium biological filtration
* Prevents new tank syndrome for immediate addition of aquarium fish
Accelerate the establishment of biological filtration in new freshwater aquariums. Patented live bacteria in SafeStart reduces dangerous ammonia and nitrite to prevent new tank syndrome. The live bacteria begins working immediately to create a safe and healthy environment that allows the immediate addition of fish. SafeStart significantly accelerates biological filtration and keeps ammonia and nitrite concentrations below harmful levels. SafeStart can also be used after a water change, when adding new fish, or after medicating. Contains a patented mix of live bacteria in a shelf stable formula - no refrigeration required. 3.38 oz treats 30 gallons. 8.45 oz treats 75 gallons. Recommended 2-day Air shipping during extreme hot or cold temperatures.

Features and Benefits

Live nitrifying bacteria start working immediately to reduce dangerous ammonia and nitrite.
SafeStart prevents new tank syndrome for healthy fish.
The patented mix of Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira and Nitrospira is proven to work.
Shelf stable formula requires no refrigeration for added convenience.
Please click on "More Information" for direction for use.

Under More Information:
Directions: Shake well. Add entire bottle to aquarium. Aquarium is then ready for fish.
Principle Ingredients: Purified water, patented and patent pending strains of: Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira, and Nitrospira.

General Information
Tetra SafeStart accelerates the establishment of the bio-filter in newly setup aquariums. It can also be used after water changes or after medicating, SafeStart contains patented and patent pending bacteria and is proven to reduce ammonia and nitrite toxicity.

Preparations for New Aquariums:

Condition tap water with a chlorine and chloramine remover.
Maintain a constant, appropriate water temperature in your aquarium.
Be sure to turn off any UV sterilizer or ozone generator for 48 hours.
Remove all medications via water change or activated carbon.
Tips:
Shake well before use.
Use entire content.
Contains live bacteria, do not freeze or expose to heat.

 

[Tizer]

From chatting with a local fish shop, i was told there are actually 5 types of bacteria in Safestart but its a closely guarded secret to what exactly those bacteria are. Could be a load of old rubbish, but i have spoken to a few people who have experienced very fast cycles using SS.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

From chatting with a local fish shop, i was told there are actually 5 types of bacteria in Safestart but its a closely guarded secret to what exactly those bacteria are. Could be a load of old rubbish, but i have spoken to a few people who have experienced very fast cycles using SS.

The bottle claims 3 by name, but they are "patent pending strains", so it is possible that there are multiple strains of one or two of the bacteria. Based on my results so far, if I had to start a cycle from scratch, I would buy SafeStart again.

 

[anon02]

I can remember reading somewhere that the bio wheel type filters are able to support comparatively large bacterial colonies due to their excellent aeration qualities

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I can remember reading somewhere that the bio wheel type filters are able to support comparatively large bacterial colonies due to their excellent aeration qualities

I've read that as well, which is partly why I bought this particular filter. Also, it was far cheaper than an external. (Also I have experience - be it from a long time ago - with HOB power filters.)

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Not surprising, tonight the 4ppm was too much for the bacteria to get through in 12 hours.

Day 13, 5/12/11 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: 0.25ppm (maybe 0.50ppm), NO3: N/A, temp: 85F


I assume they will both drop to zero by tomorrow morning. I will continue dosing to 4ppm until they drop to zero in 12 hours. Then I will raise the dosage to 5ppm for a week.

 

[OldMan47]

At day 13 you have a tank that looks about like a day 13 tank with no additives. Keep at it and you will end up cycled but it almost proves the things you added did no good at all.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

At day 13 you have a tank that looks about like a day 13 tank with no additives. Keep at it and you will end up cycled but it almost proves the things you added did no good at all.

Thanks. How long do you figure? I think it won't take long, and certainly won't be as long as the 50+ days I've seen from some folks. Perhaps it is a placebo effect on my attitude, but I don't see any cycle log that have had zeros for ammonia and nitrite in 12 hours for any dosage of ammonia in such a short span. L_Plates has taken 40 days. karawr is at 53 days and counting, just to name a few. Something tells me that this won't take another 30 days.

Either way, long time or short, I will continue to post updates as this progresses. I just think (hope?) that this was a temporary blip, and it will go back to trucking through again tomorrow.

 

[OldMan47]

I don't see double zeros in today readings for you either. I am happy that you are moving forward but can't say that you are that far from normal.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I don't see double zeros in today readings for you either. I am happy that you are moving forward but can't say that you are that far from normal.

See, now you went and did it! You forced me to test before I went to bed. So, 14.5 hours after dosing, and the survey says:

NH3: 0 ppm, NO2: 0 ppm


So, now you DO see double zeros in today's readings for me.

Apparently my bacteria found out you were doubting them!

The plan tomorrow is to still dose at 4ppm, until I get double zeros at 12 hours. Once that happens, I will dose up to 5ppm.

 

[anon02]

In your place I would throw in the occasional NO3 test, not so much for the numbers, just to make sure that the trend is rising (canary in the mine as WD puts it)

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Duly noted. Thanks for the suggestion. My nitrate values have come out all over the place recently, so I have performed a lot of these tests. I think now that the nitrites are under control, the nitrates must be a bit more reliable.

NO3: really stinking high. (The 40ppm and 80ppm colors look identical to me, but it is definitely redder than the 40ppm number. I don't know if it's as high as 80 or over it.)

Hedging, I would say about 60ppm. I might do another water change tonight, just so that the levels of nitrates are readable for a few days.



Another option could be to use 1/5 tank water for the test, and 4/5 tap water (I have 0ppm in my tap) and then multiply my result by 5. Would that work?



Dosed to 4ppm ammonia.

 

[waterdrop]

Always a good sign to see a general trend (so said because you need more days of data to better see the graph slope on nitrate when individual results move around) upward in the NO3.

Part of the problem we all have with looking at the threads around us and drawing conclusions is that we can only see a limited span of time. Let's say you've looked around and seen some 50 day fishless cycles. A few of us have looked around for 3 years and seen a range from 21 days to 100 days on non-BB fishless cycles. And before that others may have watched for similar 3 year periods and longer. These numbers I'm using pretty often include the qualifying week, so you are now looking like you'll head in to this same low end of the range and I think that is part of what OM47 is observing.

I tend to make comments about 50 and 70 day fishless cycles in my writeups that I know will be seen by beginners partly to help prepare them for the worst and hopefully lay the groundwork for encouraging them to stick with it (helping beginners have patience is really about the hardest task for advisers here in the beginners section I think.) My doing that in my comments does probably tend to -not- really advertise the real average, which may be somewhere between 30 and 50 days I suppose. Actually one of the difficult things about all this is that there are enough variables that I think there -really- might -not- be a nice bell curve we can reasonably home in on, at least with beginners, because the behaviors are so all over the place (don't forget, you are a pretty well-controlled example compared to plenty of cases we get where people just do things wrong accidentally.)

Going back to some of your earlier posts, having lots of surface agitation may indeed be a good thing for this cycle. That's always been one of the positive factors in fishless cycling. The extra oxygen availability of the biowheel design may also be a good factor. I've always felt the biowheel concept was a two-edged sword: you get more oxygen due to just straight-out putting the bacteria up in the air part of the time but you also increase your risk over time since a power failure can leave them to dry out and die quickly.

This fishless cycle is still an still an example of a good case with good data no matter how it turns out for us to add to our experience. Keep up the good work.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Thanks waterdrop...


I was thinking previously about the biowheel and the potential catastrophic failure in case of a power outage... The back of the HOB actually has an extra slot, which would allow for two cartridges, but I am thinking about putting some ceramics in there. The bacteria should also colonize that area, and if so, in case of a power failure (it doesn't happen often at my house, maybe twice in the last 7 years, and never lasts very long) I wouldn't have to start virtually over with the bacs, but instead will have the colonies in the ceramics. This might make rinsing out the cartridges a little more tedious, since I will probably have to pull all the ceramics out again when I put the cartridge back in so that it fits properly, but it very may well be worth the effort to have a failsafe in place.



And I do realize that the range of cycles is much wider than the snapshot of what is available on the forum currently. But, the amount of movement that my cycle has had makes me think one of two things... Either I am extremely fortunate, or one of the many things I have done to help the bacteria colonization process has worked. (I guess the real problem is that I have so many variables in play, it would be impossible to figure out exactly what the reason is for the shortness of this cycle. But, that said, I much prefer that to have to trudge through a 7+ week cycle. I really feel for the folks who are, or have done it.)



BTW, speaking with the wife recently, it looks like we are going to wait until September before we actually end up getting fish! My summer schedule is great, in that I have two summer jobs lined up and a trip to Disney World with my son, but it is terrible for fishkeeping! We just don't think it is fair to the fish, or whomever we won't talk into caring for the fish during that duration of time... We will be gone off and on for the better part of two months. My brother will take the tank I am using now, and the filters and can add ammonia daily with a water change occasionally to keep my filters nicely cycled. Would having him add 4ppm every 12 hours be better than just once a day to help the bacteria grow even more robust? My other option is getting a second 10 gallon tank from my sister in law, and then running one filter on each. Then I would have 20 gallons worth of cycled filters! I will still need a period to cycle the filters up to the 56 gallon tank, but that should be rather short lived I believe. (If I am mistaken I will take that into consideration, and start to plan accordingly. My son thinks we will be getting fish the same day that we return from Disney! He just doesn't understand the concept of "after Disney" meaning anything other than the very next day!)

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Evening update:


NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: <0.25ppm


Well its a little disappointing that the ammonia and nitrite aren't hitting zeros again in 12 hours, but it is falling to zeros well before 24 hours, so I would definitely conclude that phase two has ended, and I am squarely in phase three. The phase hasn't ended yet, but I am optimistic that the cycle is winding down. The big question is, what will I do once the cycle is complete? I'm still working on that one.