Ask Questions About Cycling

[Rocky998]

Ah ok. That makes sense. As long as it isnt a link to another fish forum its fine

Noted. I wasn't sure what the rules were about posting links from outside this forum, so I went the safe route and removed the extra stuff.

 

[Essjay]

Links to things like a manufacturer's website or eBay/Amazon/other shops (as long as it's not your own business) are acceptable. The links we don't want are to rival general fish forums, though links to specialist sites, which have a lot more in depth knowledge of certain fish species, are acceptable.

 

[astonerii]

I am on round 4 of my 75 gallon tank for cycling. Am getting very frustrated, particularly the loss of life. It always seems to be our favorite Betta's that die.

Something has to be preventing nitrifying bacteria from growing in my set-up, likely actively killing it.

One thing that I discovered while disassembling the last set-up is a leak in the Aqueon Quietflow 400 cannister filter. The inlet side shut off valve that attaches to the cannister was leaking and was likely sucking air directly into the filter when running. I have a new one coming from Aqueon, so this should fix this problem. Would the air infiltration into the filter cause the nitrifying bacteria to not grow?

My last set-up included a reverse flow set under gravel filter with 2 inches of Imagitarium River Rock Shallow Creek Aquarium Gravel with the reverse flow coming from an Aqueon QuietFlow 155/400 Canister Filter through 4 tubes. Aeration came from 2x Tetra Whisper AP150 aquarium Air Pump, For Deep Water Applications through MY MIRONEY 9.84" Air Stone Bar Nano Micro Bubble Diffuser White Plastic Casing Bubble Air Stone for Aquarium Fish Tank Pack of 2. The Cannister filter has the rough filter included with the filter followed by 1 full gallon of Seachem Matrix, 4 L / 1 gal. with a more fine filter cut from AQUANEAT Aquarium Bio Sponge Filter Media Pad Open Cell Foam Cut-to-fit Matten Filter Fish Tank Sump Divider 17.7" x 17" x 2" as the last internal filter. Total outlets for the filter were 6, 4 went through the under gravel filter and 2 went through the polishing units, one with carbon and one with filter floss only, although for a while I had a filter floss filled with crushed coral to raise the PH when i was running CO2, which I stopped doing as I thought it might be interfering with the nitrifying bacteria.

Here is a picture of my last attempt to get a healthy aquarium going. This set-up has been running since January and seems to have never built up any nitrifying bacteria despite using quick start live nitrifying bacteria... The arrows indicate the direction of water flow. Will ammonia kill amazon sword plants as these plants do not seem to last long... See the browning leaves in the floating plants in image below. All our snails died as well. 3 young clown plecos just simply disappeared with no body or skeleton to be found.

Filter media and the location of leak. Unless someone has a better media plan, I plan to use this again, minus the leaking valve. The bottom half of the lower tray is coarse foam filter, half seachem matrix biological filter, the middle tray is all seachem matrix biological filter, the top tray bottom half is seachem biological filter and the top half is a finer foam filter material.

Tap water quality is as follows:

16 in 1 test strip unless otherwise specified. mg/L unless otherwise specified. Alternates are API liquid, Dr meter Ph, Salifert Carbonate, Milliard 7 in 1
PH (16 in 1) 6.7 (Milliard) 6.4-6.8 (Dr Meter) 9.06 (API) 6.4-6.8 (Dr. meter was just calibrated, so not sure why it is so far off.)
Ammonia (API) did not test... gah!
Nitrite below 1 very light (milliard) 0
Nitrate below 10 very light (milliard) 0
hardness general 25-50 hard to tell
chlorine total 0-0.5
chlorine fee 0-0.5 (milliard) 0-0.5
bromine 0-1
iron 0
chromium 0-2
lead 0-20 weird? Is very light so probably less than 10
copper 0
mercury 0
fluoride very hard to read but between 0 and 50?
carbonate root 0 (Salifert) 0.6-1.2 changed very fast... (milliard) 0-40
total alkalinity 0 (milliard) 0-40

We use API STRESS COAT Aquarium Water Conditioner 32-Ounce Bottle to treat the water when doing water changes. For the 75 gallon aquarium after cleaning the substrate the aquarium is treated with the conditioner and then water is added at the correct temperature through Aqueon Aquarium Water Changer - 50 feet connected to our bathroom shower hose.

Once we set up the aquarium, things work fine for a few weeks and then the ammonia rises and will not go down. It requires large water changes (40%) to keep it below 1ppm and short of 90% water changes, it stays above safe level (0.25ppm). We do water changes and use a gravel cleaner to get detritus out of the aquarium and even went to a single feeding per day for 6 weeks to reduce the load on the nitrifying bacteria system. We pull the ship out in order to get detritus under it as well. When we tore down the aquarium recently, there was little detritus under the under gravel filter, so that does not appear to be the problem.

I have used this, Fritz Aquatics 80223 FritzZyme 7 Nitrifying Bacteria for Fresh Water Aquariums, 1-Gallon), since December through middle of March with every water change, using the recommended doses at first and finally just dumping what was left which was about a quart at the end. It never seemed to work to lower ammonia.

Then I ordered this, API QUICK START Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Nitrifying Bacteria 32-Ounce Bottle, thinking that maybe the FritzZyme was not very good quality, the middle of March and used the whole thing and the Ammonia still did not go down a smidgen over a period of a week.

The FritzZyme is a cloudy pinkish color with stringy filaments that makes it seem as though there is something in it, the API Quick Start on the other hand is perfectly clear like water making me wonder if it was real?

I am in the process of rebuilding my 75 gallon aquarium. It is currently torn down to just having gravel at the bottom and no water. So, I am looking for suggestions to get this aquarium up and running and healthy.

Items available for the rebuild... Open to buying new stuff if it will be helpful.

• Aqueon Standard Glass Aquarium Tank 75 Gallon
• H2Pro Glass Canopy 2 Piece Set for Aqueon All Glass 75/90/110 Gallon 48x18 Aquarium Fish Tank (Each Piece Measure 22.08 x 16.57 x 0.16in) I had this sealed quite well with the back plastic peice.
• Aqueon QuietFlow 155/400 Canister Filter (currently awaiting replacement valve so there will not be a leak)
• up to 2 inches of Imagitarium River Rock Shallow Creek Aquarium Gravel leaning towards closer to 1 inch...
• 
• Top Fin® Ship Aquarium Ornament2x Tetra Whisper AP150 aquarium Air Pump, For Deep Water Applications
• MY MIRONEY 9.84" Air Stone Bar Nano Micro Bubble Diffuser White Plastic Casing Bubble Air Stone for Aquarium Fish Tank Pack of 2
• 2x Tetra Whisper AP150 aquarium Air Pump, For Deep Water Applications
• 3x Tfwadmx Aquarium Plant Holder Plant Pot Aquarium Decor Crystal Glass Aquatic Plant Cup with Suction Cups for Fish Tank Aquascape Decoration (4 Pack)
• CO2 Art PRO-SE Series Aquarium CO2 Dual Stage Regulator with Solenoid CA-PRO-SE-CGA (currently not planning to use CO2)
• CO2 Art Inline CO2 Diffuser 12/16 mm with Hose Locks (currently not planning to use CO2)
• 2X VivaGrow DN DayNight RGB 24/7 Customize Automation Full Spectrum LED Aquarium Fish Tank Light Extendable Remote (48" - 53")
• 2x Seachem Matrix, 4 L / 1 gal. minus a couple cups that I used in my 5 and 10 gallon aquariums.​
• hygger Fast Heating Titanium Aquarium Heater with LED Digital Temp Controller 500W Submersible Fish Heater for 60-120 Gallon Freshwater Marine Tank (might need something larger in order to get temperature up to 86 when fighting ick)
  
  
  Thanks for any suggestions in advance.​

 

[PJM2021]

I am having issues cycling my tank. I used api quick start and tetra safe start, I also used Dr. Tims aquatics ammonium chloride solution to help kick start the cycle. Its been about 3 weeks and my ammonia levels are still at 1-2ppm with zero nitrites and possibly a slight amount of nitrates(hard to tell as the chart colors are very similar on my test kit). I did notice this morning that there is an algea bloom on some of my decorations in the tank. So Im wondering, should I leave it be and retest in a few days or do a water change to lower ammonia levels? I also have two hang on back filters going at the moment. I will remove the first one i put on but didnt want to remove any beneficial bacteria so I am waiting until i see some more buildup in the new filter. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[JayLB]

I’ve been a month or more trying to cycle a fishless tank.

Current parameters are:

Ph: 6.6-6.8
Ammonia: 1.0ppm
Nitrites: .25ppm
Nitrates: 5.0pM

Tank is 20g with temp at 78.

Any idea why this isn’t working faster? Or what I should be doing

 

[Rocky998]

I’ve been a month or more trying to cycle a fishless tank.

Current parameters are:

Ph: 6.6-6.8
Ammonia: 1.0ppm
Nitrites: .25ppm
Nitrates: 5.0pM

Tank is 20g with temp at 78.

Any idea why this isn’t working faster? Or what I should be doing

Try adding a bubbler and increase the temp to 81
It's weird that it's taking this long.
What part of the cycle are you on?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You need to raise the pH a tad. The bacteria prefer ammonia in th NH3 form. But most of it is in the NH4 form. How mich of the total ammonia is in each form depedns on the pH and temp. of the water. The pH is much more important.

But, if you are going to have the water you describe as your normal tank water, then the acid nature of it means it will also take a bit longer to get the tank cycled. However, if your tap water is of a higher pH, you should be aware that low pH can slow a cycle dramatically and if your pH is not there naturally, if you raise it, the cycle will go faster. To raise the pH you would need to raise the KH.

What it boils down to is the bacteria can use NH4 but they will do so much less efficiently than they will using NH3. So in acid water, cycling will take longer.

I can tell you that I have cycled a tank for wild ALtum angels, The water in that tank to start had a pH of 4.2. It took me about 6 months to bring that to its current 6.0 level. I need to be carefull not to let the pH rise anywhere near neutral as that changes things re how the vacreria will work. Ince I had a good groupd for acid water, I do not want to turn the water hostile towards them. There are also different strains of bacteria that thrive at different pH levels. So while some can adapt other cannot. Once you have a good group of bacteria established in an acid pH tank the last thing we want to do is raise the pH to a level which will be somewhat hostile to a portion of the bacteria.

 

[JayLB]

Try adding a bubbler and increase the temp to 81
It's weird that it's taking this long.
What part of the cycle are you on?

What do you mean “what part of the cycle”?

 

[Rocky998]

What do you mean “what part of the cycle”?

Which step are you on?
You're using the instructions on here for cycling right?

 

[JayLB]

You need to raise the pH a tad. The bacteria prefer ammonia in th NH3 form. But most of it is in the NH4 form. How mich of the total ammonia is in each form depedns on the pH and temp. of the water. The pH is much more important.

But, if you are going to have the water you describe as your normal tank water, then the acid nature of it means it will also take a bit longer to get the tank cycled. However, if your tap water is of a higher pH, you should be aware that low pH can slow a cycle dramatically and if your pH is not there naturally, if you raise it, the cycle will go faster. To raise the pH you would need to raise the KH.

What it boils down to is the bacteria can use NH4 but they will do so much less efficiently than they will using NH3. So in acid water, cycling will take longer.

I can tell you that I have cycled a tank for wild ALtum angels, The water in that tank to start had a pH of 4.2. It took me about 6 months to bring that to its current 6.0 level. I need to be carefull not to let the pH rise anywhere near neutral as that changes things re how the vacreria will work. Ince I had a good groupd for acid water, I do not want to turn the water hostile towards them. There are also different strains of bacteria that thrive at different pH levels. So while some can adapt other cannot. Once you have a good group of bacteria established in an acid pH tank the last thing we want to do is raise the pH to a level which will be somewhat hostile to a portion of the bacteria.

I don’t know the specifics of Nh3 and NH4. I also am not sure how to raise ph

 

[Colin_T]

I’ve been a month or more trying to cycle a fishless tank.

Current parameters are:

Ph: 6.6-6.8
Ammonia: 1.0ppm
Nitrites: .25ppm
Nitrates: 5.0pM

Tank is 20g with temp at 78.

Any idea why this isn’t working faster? Or what I should be doing

On average it takes around 4-6 weeks to cycle an aquarium but can take longer (up to 8 weeks or more). The fact you have a nitrite reading means you are at least half way through the cycling process because the first group of beneficial bacteria are converting ammonia into nitrite.

Don't bother testing for nitrate until the ammonia and nitrite have both gone up and then come back down to 0ppm. Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading.

-------------------
The following things can be done to help speed up the cycling process.
Increase water temperature to 30C (86F). The bacteria grow faster in warmer water.

Increase aeration/ surface turbulence. The bacteria like oxygen rich water.

Keep the pH close to 7.0.

Have the top of the tank open and exposed to air so bacteria can land on the water.

If the cycle seems to stall, do a huge (90%) water change and add some more ammonia.
Make sure the new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

If you don't have live plants in the aquarium, turn the light off. The filter bacteria prefer dark conditions, not bright light.
If you have live plants, have the light on. Live plants can screw up a filter cycle by using the ammonia and stopping the bacteria from developing.

Add some liquid filter bacteria supplement (available from most pet shops). These can boost the filter bacteria and get the cycle finished quite quickly. I recommend adding a double dose every day for a week, then pour the remaining contents into the tank. try to add the filter bacteria near the filter intake so the bacteria get drawn into the filter where you want them.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I don’t know the specifics of Nh3 and NH4. I also am not sure how to raise ph

A bit of crushed coral in a bag in your filter or hanging in the tank in the path of any flow will do that. It will raise the kH and that will help to raise the pH.

You do not need to know the specifics. All you need to know is a pH below 7.9 slows a cycle and the farther below 7.0 it is, the lower things will move. However, what raises KH in tanks are carbonates and bicarbonates. The bacteria will also use them. So you do have another option since no fish are involved.

Baking Soda- available at any supermarket- is sodium bicarbonate.

To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH. Sodium bicarbonate drives the pH towards an equilibrium value of 8.2.

The only issue with doing this sodium can build up in the tank. Most fish will not do well in this and the sodium will have to be removed with a large water change or two once the tank is cycled. If you need something longer term to hold the pH up, crushed coral is a far better solution.

Adding bacteria will not help much, if at all, until you deal with the pH. I would suggest the fastest gix would be the baking soda. your tank doesn't hold 20 gals. it holds more like 17 and less if you have substrate, rocks. wood ot other decorations. For the purpose of adding baking sode I would consider it 50 liters and suggest you add 1/2 teaspoon. Then wait about 20 minutes and test the pH. If it is over 7 but not more than 7.5, do nothing more. If it is not over 7, add another 1/4 teaspoon and test the pH again in about 20 minutes. The pH should then be 7 or higher.

Wherever you are in the fishless cycle if you are following the guide on this site/ Continue following the dosing plan when you test results indicate it is time to add ammonia.

Do you know what your tap water parameters are for pH, KH and GH? It would help to know these.

Also, if you want to add live plants thet become part of the cycle. They use ammonia faster than the bacteria. But the plants use NH4 and the bacteria use NH3. So you will have both in the tank. You will have less bacteria, but the plants themselves host that bacteria, so adding live plants also means you are adding some amount of bacteria.

I do both planted community tanks and pleco breeding tanks which have no plants. They are both fully cycled in terms of handling ammonia.

 

[gibbyordo]

Hello! I have a ten gallon tank with the intention of getting some tetras, and have already started the cycling process by adding 1/16 of a teaspoon of Fritz's Ammonium Chloride. The water was conditioned with Tetra AquaSafe Plus and I've been testing it with an API Freshwater Master Kit. It has been about four weeks with my ammonium levels dropping ( about 1.0ppm now, was previously 2.0ppm), but no sign of nitrites or nitrates. Today I noticed some fluffy white stuff on my Java Fern and so I took it out and moved it to a different container. Was it bacteria eating the ammonia? Should I add more ammonia? I have a TopFin Silentstream PF10 Power Filter and the tank it almost always at 78 degrees Fahrenheit. The pH is always about 7.5, and the light is left on 24/7.

 

[Rocky998]

Hello! I have a ten gallon tank with the intention of getting some tetras, and have already started the cycling process by adding 1/16 of a teaspoon of Fritz's Ammonium Chloride. The water was conditioned with Tetra AquaSafe Plus and I've been testing it with an API Freshwater Master Kit. It has been about four weeks with my ammonium levels dropping ( about 1.0ppm now, was previously 2.0ppm), but no sign of nitrites or nitrates. Today I noticed some fluffy white stuff on my Java Fern and so I took it out and moved it to a different container. Was it bacteria eating the ammonia? Should I add more ammonia? I have a TopFin Silentstream PF10 Power Filter and the tank it almost always at 78 degrees Fahrenheit. The pH is always about 7.5, and the light is left on 24/7.

I know you said you have java ferns but are there any other plants in there?

 

[Byron]

Hello! I have a ten gallon tank with the intention of getting some tetras, and have already started the cycling process by adding 1/16 of a teaspoon of Fritz's Ammonium Chloride. The water was conditioned with Tetra AquaSafe Plus and I've been testing it with an API Freshwater Master Kit. It has been about four weeks with my ammonium levels dropping ( about 1.0ppm now, was previously 2.0ppm), but no sign of nitrites or nitrates. Today I noticed some fluffy white stuff on my Java Fern and so I took it out and moved it to a different container. Was it bacteria eating the ammonia? Should I add more ammonia? I have a TopFin Silentstream PF10 Power Filter and the tank it almost always at 78 degrees Fahrenheit. The pH is always about 7.5, and the light is left on 24/7.

First, do not leave the tank light on 24/7. This is going to cause problem algae and might be significant enough to harm the plants, even Java Fern. The tank light can be on ofr any reasonable period from six hours up to eight, possibly more, but I would stay at or below eight hours. And have it the same eight hours each day, you can use a small timer for this. This matters for plants, but it will matter even more when fish are present.

The fluffy white stuff might be algae, can you post a photo? Sometimes algae which is normally green, dark red, brown or black in appearance, can seem white, several other threads have dealt with this.

Welcome to TFF.