Ask Questions About Cycling

[Essjay]

How heavily planted?

If there are lots of plants you don't need to do a fishless cycle; and the high level of ammonia in the water used in fishless cycling is not good for plants. Cycling with plants is called silent cycling.


Plants take up ammonia as fertiliser. In a heavily planted tank, they will remove all the ammonia made by a sensibly stocked tank of fish faster than filter bacteria. And they don't turn it into nitrite like bacteria do.

You can leave the water in the tank, you'll probably find the ammonia drops quicker than a fishless cycle as the plants take it up. Don't add any more ammonia, but monitor the plants. Once you are sure they are actively growing and not about to die, and ammonia has dropped to zero, buy the first batch of fish. Then measure ammonia and nitrite every day to make sure the plants are taking up all the ammonia - if either show above zero, do a water change. Wait a week or two of zero readings then get the next batch of fish and keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels.
If there are enough plants you should never see any ammonia or nitrite, but slow is the way to go to be on the safe side.

 

[JPW003]

Hi Essjay

Thanks once again for your valuable input.

I've attached a picture of the tank. I think this is quite heavy planted and with easy grow (allegedly!) plants as I'm on the LED unit which came with the ROMA 125 and no Co2. I planted everything dry on Tuesday and so far it seems to be doing well, fingers crossed! I've got tonnes of nutrients in the substrate (Tetra Complete & Active combo), plus root tabs, and TNC Complete fertiliser - one 10ml dose so far on start up and planning on doing little and often to experiment to get the right results. Any further help on this from anyone on a new planted aquarium would be fab.

I've just tested ammonia and I'm still 2-3ppm. Zero nitrite and oddly, the pH is slightly higher than my smaller established tank...

I've just added the established sponge filter from my smaller tank given the ammonia levels to see what happens, despite me planning on not using anything. Had a change of heart!

I won't add any more ammonia on your advice and will monitor the levels of everything to see how it fairs. I suppose the only thing I'm nervous of and unsure of is when my ammonia readings get to zero, how will I know it's safe for my 10 neon's and 4 amano shrimp? Is it just a case of seeing how the plants flourish and if they do, then it's good to go? I'm definitely not adding anything for a while, particularly given I have ammonia readings of 2-3 today.

Thanks for all your help as always.

J

 

[Essjay]

Wait until the plants are showing obvious signs of growth. I would also get some floating plants if possible. 2 reasons - they take up more ammonia than lower down plants and they provide shade for the fish. Plants such as water sprite, frogbit etc.

 

[Byron]

I concur with essjay's posts. That is a nice aquascape, and you have some faster growing plants and some slow-growing plants. Floating plants will really help you here, and going forward. It is hard to tell from photos, but the light seems on the bright side and with the lower plants you may find algae being a problem without floating plants. Water Sprite, Frogbit, Water Lettuce are good floaters, and some stem plants do well left floating. Floating plants are more rapid growers and are often referred to as ammonia sinks because of their ability to take up ammonia/ammonium.

Do not add any more ammonia; in fact I would be inclined to do a partial water change to get rid of some it. Some plants can be set back with ammonia over 1 ppm. What you should add though is a comprehensive liquid fertilizer. A new tank has very few natural nutrients for plants to get going.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Why don’t you move some of your filter media from the other tank and perhaps some of the substrate for a quick cycle?

 

[JPW003]

Thanks Byron. Yes, Essjay and yourself have both helped me in the past with successful advice which is why I came back to this site. The phrase "you don't know what you don't know" is so true in life!
It's technically my first aquascape as the other tank is the children's, so you can only imagine what 6 year olds think looks good! I enjoyed putting it together, and the manzanite piece works well I think with the Corbo root. There's probably 25 plants in there but I definitely want to get some water lettuce. With lock-down, it's difficult, does anyone know where to get excellent floating plants on-line in the UK?

The light is the standard 10w LED that came with the Fluval Roma 125LED. I'm hoping it will be enough to grow these plants without Co2. I've started on 6 hours and will increase to 8 potentially, subject to how things grow..

I've just done a 50l water change, thanks for that. And yes, Deanasue, thanks for that - I've moved over a sponge filter from the old tank which is how I get the bubbles behind the Corbo Root. I've got the Fluval U3 on there too but my shrimps love the sponges so I'e installed one for when they come across.

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron. Yes, Essjay and yourself have both helped me in the past with successful advice which is why I came back to this site. The phrase "you don't know what you don't know" is so true in life!
It's technically my first aquascape as the other tank is the children's, so you can only imagine what 6 year olds think looks good! I enjoyed putting it together, and the manzanite piece works well I think with the Corbo root. There's probably 25 plants in there but I definitely want to get some water lettuce. With lock-down, it's difficult, does anyone know where to get excellent floating plants on-line in the UK?

The light is the standard 10w LED that came with the Fluval Roma 125LED. I'm hoping it will be enough to grow these plants without Co2. I've started on 6 hours and will increase to 8 potentially, subject to how things grow..

I've just done a 50l water change, thanks for that. And yes, Deanasue, thanks for that - I've moved over a sponge filter from the old tank which is how I get the bubbles behind the Corbo Root. I've got the Fluval U3 on there too but my shrimps love the sponges so I'e installed one for when they come across.

CO2 will not benefit anythging here, and you won't need it. Light duration is good; use a timer so it is consistent, that's better not only for plants but fish. I can suggest comprehensive plant supplements if asked.

 

[JPW003]

Brill, thanks for the reassurance Byron. I'm using TNC Complete at the moment, 5ml every four days and will tailor subject to growth/algae.

I don't need liquid carbon, do i?

J

 

[Byron]

Brill, thanks for the reassurance Byron. I'm using TNC Complete at the moment, 5ml every four days and will tailor subject to growth/algae.

I don't need liquid carbon, do i?

J

No on the so-called liquid carbon. This is glutaraldehyde, a highly toxic disinfectant. Some plants will be killed with these products even at recommended doses. If it should be overdosed, it has the ability to kill plants, fish and bacteria. it is after all used in hospitals to disinfect surgical instruments and in embalming fluid...no one should assume this is good for fish.

On the TNC Complete, initiall this is OK. But once fish are present, I would change to their TNC Lite. The difference is that TNC Complete has nitrate and phosphates, while TNC Lite does not (all other nutrients are the same). With fish, there is no need to be adding nitrate or phosphates as both will be in abundance from the fish and feeding them.

 

[JPW003]

Fab, thanks so much Byron,, will switch to Lite before we get the boys in

J

 

[Essjay]

With lock-down, it's difficult, does anyone know where to get excellent floating plants on-line in the UK?

I got my water sprite from k2aqua on Ebay. He has three varieties listed at the moment here - Ceratopteris cornuta (the one I bought), C. fein and C thalicroides. I use this seller as his plants are guaranteed shrimp safe and I have shrimps.

 

[JPW003]

Thanks Essjay, I'll have a look.

 

[aqua.land]

Hi!
I have just gotten a new 40l (9 gal) fish tank.
i am a bit confused about this whole cycling thing.....some say to just pour in dechlorinated water and special 'good bacteria' mix, test the water, run the tank for 24hours, and its fine to put the fish in....
However the post on this forum says it takes up to 6 weeks to fully cycle your tank before you can put in fish!
Please, can anyone help?

 

[Essjay]

If you just set up the tank with no live plants, no mature media and no bacterial starter, yes it does take 6 to 8 weeks.

If you can add mature media from another tank, you can still follow the method in this thread, and it will go faster.

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

Tetra Safe Start is the best bacterial starter, but it won't cycle the tank instantly. You can use it to speed up the cycle in that method.

Safe Start and mature media will be even faster.



Live plants - you don't need to cycle the tank with ammonia. Plants use ammonia made by fish as fertiliser. Provided there are more than just the odd couple of slow growing plants, set up the tank, add the plants and wait till you are sure they are growing and not about to die, then get fish. It is safest to check ammonia and nitrite every day till you are sure they are staying at zero.
Floating plants are ideal for this as they grow quickly and take up ammonia quickly.

 

[aqua.land]

If you just set up the tank with no live plants, no mature media and no bacterial starter, yes it does take 6 to 8 weeks.

If you can add mature media from another tank, you can still follow the method in this thread, and it will go faster.

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

Tetra Safe Start is the best bacterial starter, but it won't cycle the tank instantly. You can use it to speed up the cycle in that method.

Safe Start and mature media will be even faster.



Live plants - you don't need to cycle the tank with ammonia. Plants use ammonia made by fish as fertiliser. Provided there are more than just the odd couple of slow growing plants, set up the tank, add the plants and wait till you are sure they are growing and not about to die, then get fish. It is safest to check ammonia and nitrite every day till you are sure they are staying at zero.
Floating plants are ideal for this as they grow quickly and take up ammonia quickly.

Oh wow, that's great, thanks!
I have both live plants, and the tetra safe start bacteria liquid, I just set up my tank and even though it took some time, (its almost midnight), it looks so nice! I'll be adding some more plants tomorrow and then some fish after tomorrow - I'm thinking of getting platys. I'll also maybe get some other fish and snails/shrimps but I'll do that next week so the fish can get used to the tank.