Are Your Fish Drunk?

[Chad]

This is very interesting to me. While it is about marine fish it does make me think about planted tanks with Co2 pumped into them. Of course with plants consuming the Co2 the fish shouldn't notice but if the balance is off then you could end up with drunk fish! 
 
"CO2 can concentrate in the bloodstream of reef fish, and they will eventually suffer the effects of hypercapnia due largely to inadequate respiration (not enough oxygen getting to their brains and organs). Fishes suffering from this malady show signs of disorientation and poor judgment; they lose their sense of direction and also become unreasonably emboldened, losing their healthy fear of predators. Essentially, they act drunk."
 
http/www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/fish-can-get-drunk-on-co2

 

[Akasha72]

wha
 
So my easycarbo has turned my fish into alkies? 

 

 

[Chad]

The article I linked to links to the study. I haven't dug into it deep enough to see if it applies to freshwater fish as well but off hand I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't except perhaps if it's pH dependent but biologically it shouldn't matter. 
 
Of course, like I said above I do think that as long as the plants are up-taking the Co2 there shouldn't be an issue, but it's also possible that this explains some previously unexplained behavior in someone's fish. 

 

[Akasha72]

I've not read the link yet, I was just about to
 
EDIT:
 
Okay, I've read it and it doesn't mention freshwater fish, only reef fish. It only applies if your pH drops below 8.1. My pH is around 6.5 so if it applied to freshwater I think my lot would be rolling drunk and crashing around the place singing rude songs whilst telling the plants and wood that they were their best mate and I really luv you right ...

 
Drink! (I'm not allowed to post the rest but anyone who's watched Father Ted will know )

 

[Chad]

So it sounds like this is something that FW fishkeepers do need to be aware of too. Obviously it won't be an issue if the Co2 is at a level the plants are consuming. 

 

[Byron]

First, Akasha, this issue deals with the gas CO2, not the so-called liquid carbon which has other risks.  But to the gas CO2, yes, this can indeed cause issues for freshwater fish.  We had a thread on this last year, and here is the article from PFK that started that discussion:
 
http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=6769
 
The blue citation in my signature actually came from this article.
 
Byron.

 

[Baccus]

Im intregued in how they determine "poor judgement" on a fishes part

 
Is it when a fish looks at a gap in the tank decore and says to itself "sure I'll fit" only to promptly get stuck head first in some embarrassing position. Or is it when Archie decides to pick a fight with Ralph who everyone new was one mean critter who bullied everyone in the tank. Its not like the fish got pulled over and breathalyzed after veering all over the road and nearly smashing into a lamppost.
Or perhaps the scientists just noticed more breeding behaviour in usually more shy fish.
Or perhaps it is a fish taking a baited hook..... science has already shown that the habit of a fish to take a baited hook is genetic (unless the fish being tested where all drunk at the time

).

 

[Chad]

Im intregued in how they determine "poor judgement" on a fishes part

 
 

I believe it was based on predator avoidance behaviors. 

 

[Akasha72]

just when you think your doing all the right things for the health of the fish and the plants etc something comes along and makes you doubt everything you ever thought you knew!
 
Now I'm worried about adding my liquid co2. I've lost two fish in a week and now I'm worried I'm killing em with the stuff I chuck in for my plants! 
 
Talk about brain melt down 

 

 

[Chad]

No no. As Byron points out above, this is about gas. Also, I can't stress enough that an amount appropriate for the plants' use will not be a problem. 

 

[Akasha72]

but surely the liquid stuff if adding something similar to the gas type? or am I getting confused? I'm no good at science

 

[Chad]

I am not sure the stuff called liquid Co2 is actually Co2. It might just be liquid carbon. I would have to research that to be sure. 

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

No wonder I wake up to my badis trying to make breakfast and trying to have a heartfelt conversation about life at 3:30 in the morning... 
But this makes me curious, is my badis always drunk? I mean he's cute and always curious, but he acts very suspicious at times. 

 
And for CO2 intoxication, wouldn't it be more of a high than being drunk? 

 

[Akasha72]

I am not sure the stuff called liquid Co2 is actually Co2. It might just be liquid carbon. I would have to research that to be sure. 

 
If you can tcamos, I need to know I'm definitely not harming my fish with this liquid co2. I'll trust you to look it up, I wouldn't know what to research. As I said I'm rubbish with science

 

[Chad]

I was right. Actually liquid Co2 only exists under high pressure. That's not the stuff you put in your tank in liquid form. A better term for what you use is liquid carbon.