Are Most Of Us Being Cruel To Our Fish?

[cheeky_chappie]

i have a rio 180 tank, not tiny, not massive. currently in there are red tailed black sharks, silver dollars, pim pictus ... and no not 10 of each

all of you will have noticed this, when a fish wants to it can dart from one end of the tank to another in what seems to be around 1 sec in my rio 180 but they of course have to bring themselves to an abrupt stop. same when they're playing/arguing, they dart left, right, up, down but have to take turns every fraction of a sec.

this got my thinking, are my fish really able to 'stretch their legs' in my tank, they can't go for any distance in any direction. this is turn got my thinking that they'd probably be happier in a tank that is at least 3-4 times wider, 3-4 times deeper (front to back) and maybe 2-3 times as high, in other words a size of tank few in the world have.

i appreciate some fish are generally slow movers but many of them can and like to shift themselves, so are those of us with average sized tanks indirectly being cruel to the fish we keep even if they are healthy and we keep good tanks in terms of water stats etc?

put it this way, person A might keep 2 tigers in a 1/4 acre enclosure and they might be healthy enough and the enclosure might be well maintained, but if person B keeps 2 tigers in a 2 acre enclosure surely they'll be happier in that they have more room to run around etc?

forget all this body length vs water quantity etc, if we are true to ourselves are our fish suffering due to what are, in real terms, relatively small bodies of water? or, given that most of the fish we buy are bred in captivity, is it all they know and are they therefore oblivious?

 

[Wills]

Well to be fair a 180 liter tank is not really a suitable home for those fish. So possibly that is cruel and you would have been better off with smaller fish in a tank that size instead of the Pictus, Cories or Porthole Cats and instead of the Silver Dollars, Black Widow or Flame Tetras? The RBTS has no real small alternative but you see what I am saying.

Its not cruel IMO there are fish for all tank sizes its just finding them and realising the limitations of a tank.

As a question in general of is fish keeping ethical - there are arguments for both sides IMO. In our tanks they have a safe environment (in well kept tanks) and enough space in most cases to go about their lives - they also have more than enough food - and also in well kept tanks a lot of our fish will live longer than in the wild as the fish we keep are pretty far down the food chain in a lot of cases.

But I also see the argument that it is cruel since there are so many fish in the hobby wrongly sold to small tanks. And also the pretty high mortality rate in the industry

Wills

 

[fluttermoth]

I agree; it's case of choosing fish that are appropriate for the size and shape tanks you have (and the water too) rather than just getting fish because you like them, or because you're intending to upgrade later (which often either doesn't happen, or happens too late and the fish are already stunted).

 

[micko]

Silver dollars grow too big for a 180ltr and need to be in groups of 6+ so your stocking is wrong. In a correctly stocked tank then its fine IMO. They're safe from predators, get far better fed than they would in the wild and I would always understock a tank for the questions you asked above.
I notice you said you had "red tail black sharks" am I right in thinking you have more than one?

 

[cheeky_chappie]

i don't think you guys are reading my topic correctly, i'm talking about fish in general almost regardless of size e.g. even if i have a tetra in a relatively small tank is it cruel in as far as the tank is limiting the way the fish will swim in the wild? that's where i'm coming from i.e. this isn't a stocking topic. using the example of the red tailed black shark, if i have 1 in my rio 180 with nothing else, is it cruel to the fish space wise.

that's more where i'm coming from

 

[micko]

Cheekie chappie, whilst your stocking may be slightly off the topic of what you chose to post people will still comment on the stock you have. People have the best interest of the fish at heart and not to put you down or have a go at you.
I have wondered the same though regarding fish in captivity but all we can do is try and make it the best home possible. I'm not going to stop fishkeeping, I don't think I could now to be honest.

 

[fluttermoth]

OP, as we've said, it's a question of whether the tank is appropriate to the fish. Neons are fine in a three or four foot tank; silver dollars are not.

Slow swimmers, like angels, or even ambush predators like oscars, can have propotionally shorter tanks than fast swimmers, like danios or bala sharks.

If the fish have the right tank, decor and care, then no, it's almost certainly not cruel; if fish are in too small a tank like, I'm sorry to say, yours are, then that's wrong.

 

[Ferg1985]

I was in despair yesterday when I overheard a couple in the LFS when I was picking up a few fish for myself. The woman was wanting this and that and this and that and the guy working there kept saying 'no, you shouldn't be putting those together'. From what I heard her ask for, she wanted a Black Moor, some Platies, 2 Angelfish, an Shark and some Tiger Barbs and then she wanted some Coral to go with it! It does worry me how little some people know about fish, and how ignorant people can be saying 'well, they're just fish'. When I tell people that I want to keep my main tank South American fish only they think I'm mad as a tank of this size could have such a fish and so and so, but I want it to be as natural as my working knowledge will let me.

As for size, I don't think I need to worry about that for my main tank - although I'm constantly aware of how well stocked it is. With there being so many small fish it looks a very busy tank, but not necessarily congested and it's probably no where near the higher end of being stocked. My little tank has 6 Rosy barbs and I think it's a shame that I went with such active fish in a smaller tank (the plan was originally for them to go into the main tank and it be a barb tank), but when you watch them they do have a lot of space to shuttle about and they're healthy so I should stop worrying so much.

I do shudder when I think of how my tanks were treated as a kid when we didn't have the internet to get clued up on things, not cleaning the tank properly for weeks at a time and washing filter media in the sink with tap water to then wonder why every other week another fish had died. Along with never doing water tests and what not.. you soon realise the difference in caring and maintaining your tanks how that little extra know how can make the world of difference and also enhance how much you enjoy your tank when you finally sit back and take it all in.