are all the "rules" really important?

[BzztYeow]

Hehe- of course i would love to set up an "all- natural biotope" but the fact is we can only do so much... and most of us dont like to see our fish become prey.

I am lucky enough to have stream on my 5 acres and so i have that. My fish tanks are purely for the enjoyment of fish and plant behaviour / looks.

Sure they are probably ok no matter how few i keep them (my fish) but when a fish is listed as shoaling/community i try to do my best to keep them in those conditions

I have ponds, 5 tanks, a stream and a natural 2 acre pond (good luck guessing how many gallons )

Anyway- all i am saying is that i feel there are many people who see these guidelines and decide they are rules. There are just as many people (like you trigg- no offense meant) who choose to completely ignore them.

They are GUIDELINES. i would never keep a shoaling species completely alone, although that doesn't mean yours is not completely "happy" with that situation, but i feel that he/she would be FAR MORE HAPPY with more of his/ her kind.

 

[andywg]

I was going to reply, but I prefer not to prepare meals for trolls.

 

[BzztYeow]

LOL- i like trolls- any recommendation on what size tank to keep them in? Its brackish water right?

Anyway- i am new enough to fishkeeping not to be able to recognize a troll right away. What was it that alerted you this time?

The intense lack of caring for the fish well-being or the comparison of an eskimo to fish?

*slaps self*

I really should have seen it coming too

 

[DMan99]

Tiggs if you put one person in a massive house with all the food they want, what will happen? People are sociable, as are minnows and so whilst a person might survive in a big house, but generally with no other human company they will be unhappy. It is exactly the same for fish.

You say a minnow might be thankful or 'happy' because he does not live in fear of birds yet until a minnow has experienced being eaten by a bird, and as it does not feel happy or sad as stated by you, then it will not live in fear. In the wild, they dont live in fear until they are eaten, yet they have mates. So in the aquarium they will not live in fear but then they do not have mates. So whilst your fish is safe do you really think he will be swimming about thinking, 'im so relieved i dont live in a river where a bird might eat me'. A minnow on his own will feel insecure so depriving him of friends, when its widely understood they enjoy friends is, maybe just a little harsh.

If at any point in this post ive been rude, sorry. It's an interesting thread!

dman

 

[abstract]

LOL- i like trolls- any recommendation on what size tank to keep them in?  Its brackish water right?

Anyway- i am new enough to fishkeeping not to be able to recognize a troll right away.  What was it that alerted you this time?

The intense lack of caring for the fish well-being or the comparison of an eskimo to fish?

*slaps self*

I really should have seen it coming too

my guess is it would have been statements like this that alerted everyone...

as a by product of my tank ego and wealth my unhappy fish have a large tank with a few hundread pounds of filtration.......i would say my minow is happier in that large, well filtered, lavishly stocked tank than in a little 20g tank with a plastic plant. in fact.......

he has a big ego and is wealthy, so his fish must be happy....then again, after reading some of his others posts, he also use a powered gravel vac that puts the water back into the tank after it has gone through some filter floss ..but he does it 5 mins everyday, so it must be good lol

what does "a few hundred pounds of filtration" in a freshwater tank look like by the way? do you mean pounds as in weight, or as in money? if it is weight, then i am really confused as i've only heard of liverock filtration talked about in terms of pounds. if it is money, then you got ripped off

oh yea, and cant forget that for water changes, Tiggs fills up their bathtub (which is loaded with shampoo and soap residue) and dechlorinates there before putting in the tank watch out, expert on hand

oops, did i say that out loud?

 

[Bloo]

sorry I shouldn't laugh, but it's rather funny!

 

[houndour]

abstract, you are asking for trouble!

 

[rdd1952]

I will say that I believe all schooling fish need to be with some of their species. Maybe in the proper community tank environment, they won't school because they don't feel threatened. I have noticed that my 10 black phantom tetras which, at first stayed pretty much together, now have spread out over the tank as others have mentioned. I assume that means that they do not feel threatened and are also happy/unstressed.

I am also guilty of not keeping schools of fish that I have had problems with. I tried otos and kept them in groups of 4 to 6 for quite a while but kept losing them. Everytime a coupel died, I bought more. I finally decided I wasn't going to buy any more. The last one was alone for about 3 weeks before he also died.

Tiggs, there's nothing anyone here can say to change the way you feel about how to keep/handle your fish. We will just all agree to disagree.

 

[Bloo]

abstract, you are asking for trouble!

it was worth the risk - he was merely pointing out concrete facts. Can't be anything wrong with that ?

 

[fishwatcher]

I think most people do what they can/think is right by their fish. Surely no one would intentionally do something to harm a fish they spent money on. You might as well flush the money down the toilet. As for rules, most are meant to be bent to a certain extent I think. You have to see what works for you basically. (And no, I don't mean the rules like dechlorinating water, using a filter, doing water changes.)
Anyway, that's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

 

[Paul_MTS]

if you want to keep fish then stock your tank how you want but don't come on forums like this and brag about it.

if you want to be a fish keeper then follow the rules on the how the fish like to be kept.

oh and 1 more thing...my tanks are bigger than yours

 

[houndour]

it was worth the risk - he was merely pointing out concrete facts. Can't be anything wrong with that ?

I totally agree, bloozoo. Tiggs hasn't really helped himself by saying some of the things he has. Abstract has only said what I _really_ wanted to say

I was just more upset about the things said about 20 gallon tanks I'm really proud of mine. I'm sure my fish are happy. And yes fish can be happy

 

[Bloo]

oh and 1 more thing...my tanks are bigger than yours

now was that last poke in the ribs really neccesary ?



Oh and since this thread started I've read with amusement - I certainly did not take it seriously at any point. I could see this outcome from the very start.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

LOL! Tiggs is that guy? ok, well the rule about not using bathtubs, mop buckets, and cooking pots for preparing fish water is based on chemistry and how the residue from all the soaps we use is more or less toxic to fish/our environment.

anyways, here are the critereon you have given us for intentionally keeping ONE shoaling fish:

• a large tank (i.e. not a 20g)
• either big or expensive filtration (unclear)
• high level of maintenance (i.e. great water quality)
• no predators or aggressive fish

ok, now here's the average tank of the hobbiest we tell the schooling rules to:

• a small tank, typically 10g
• basic/minimal filtration (enough to get by)
• basic level of maintenance (10~20% a week)
• at least one predator or aggressive fish (preferred combo: angels and neons)

plain and simple, you really can't get away with breaking all the rules and have a successful, fish-friendly tank. you have to follow at least some of the rules or your fish won't survive. picking out which ones are good for you to follow runs into the Art aspect of the hobby. Tiggs, you've picked space, filtration, maintenance and "social harmony" so that you could skip out on school size. those aren't choices that everyone can or is prepared to make. so we tell them to at least meet school size.

(another reason certain numbers are recommended for certain fish is that they display undesirable qualities when kept in small groups. examples are tiger barb who nip fins, danios who chase everything, buenos aires tetras who bully, loaches who hide and cories who just sit there. the quickest and easiest way to combat these behaviors? meet their schooling needs and own a sufficient number of them.)

 

[Paul_MTS]

i couldn't help it! it's all for good laugh though aint it Tiggs!!