Aquascaper 600

[Advanced Aquarist]

RO/DI means you have a deioniser stage AFTER the RO output. This will get rid of the remaining contaminants. The TDS out of the RO will be about 10 or so, after the DI it should be about 0 - 2 at the most.

But you got to be careful, since RO output water is high in CO2 this can exhaust the DI resin quickly.

Why would you want RO/DI? Well in my case I had diatom/brown algae outbreak (you seem to have some too) if I only used RO. Adding DI will take out the silicates and the other offending contaminants that will cause diatom algae. I know when I my DI resin is exhausted when I do a water change because diatom algae start appearing . . I use a TDS meter now to check the DI output.

Making your own ferts is actually very cheap, only issue is with the trace mixing, then you're talking needing a milligram scale, I had to buy one, costs about £300, but I make my trace element mix to last me at least half a year. You also have to keep the trace solution in the fridge. Macros you only need modest scales since you're dealing with gram measurements. For this reason most people buy Trace element mixes because it very fiddly to mix your own.

You can run 900 lph on your tank - I just don't see the point of that. With resistance and mechanical filter clogging up over time you're probably going to see maybe 500 lph at the most. There's also the issue of how strong the pump is and most canister filters have "weak" pumps that drop flow quickly as they get dirty. ADA superjets actually have lower flow rates compared to their size BUT a higher head to maintain the flow rate as resistance builds up. Also most fish don't actually like having high flow rates in the tank, they appreciate dead spots and quiet areas.

I've heard of people having problems with the seals on the Oase filters, this might have to do with them having such a high flow since this requires a tighter seal, and the squarish canister shape is not optimal for seal compression.

The person I'm conferring with for advice on Trace element mixing is running his planted tank using air operated sponge filters!!

 

[seangee]

No need for DI in a tropical tank. What @Advanced Aquarist says is correct my TDS is typically around 9 - 14 depending on the source water at the time, typically 280-320.
I do have a post carbon filter, not needed for fish but I drink the water too. Not sure if it actually makes a difference though cos I have never tried without

 

[Wills]

Started a bit of a rehash of the back right, I didnt mean for it to be quite so drastic but when I started moving things around a little I realised none of the plants in that corner were rooted and some of them were not much more than the plantlets that were initially planted. So tonight I've added some Bacoppa Carolina which is a new plant for me which you can see on the far right of the tank, a crypt becketii petchi which is dotted around the mid ground as the rossette split up nicely and 2 pots of S.Repens which has done really well in some spots and not in others but I like the mixed leaf look in the carpet, some areas are looking really nice now. Oh I also put in some Rotala sp. Orange Juice mainly for the name not too hopeful for this in a way as the stems were pretty beat up in the post but we will see.

I've also ordered 3 pots of Rotala Rotundafola 'Ceylon' which is meant to be an easy grow rotala but with fine leaves and pinky tints. These are potted plants so hopefully will do better than the 1-2-grow plantlets. I think the invitro ones struggled because that rock in the back corner put them in too much shape from the light where as taller stems should be able to make use.

My new steel toothbrush is making quick work of any algae on rocks and I think I'm seeing some die back of the staghorn and hopefully by putting the Bacopa at its front door it should make a difference having a fast (I think?) grower in this spot.

Wills

 

[Wills]

Recieved three bunches of Rotala sp.Ceylon from World of Mosses tonight all gone in on the right hand side, needs a litle shuffling I can see but want to let it take hold before I start shaping it. It came as submersed form which I think is really cool as it means it should get going straight away. Though I think it may still need to transition to my water.

Quite a different colour to some of the other Rotalas I've seen, the leaves have cooler tones to it which I hope blends in as it starts to bush, that corner has quite a lot species in so I might need to review when I work out what works and what doesnt over there.

Wills

 

[Dajuyu]

Recieved three bunches of Rotala sp.Ceylon from World of Mosses tonight all gone in on the right hand side, needs a litle shuffling I can see but want to let it take hold before I start shaping it. It came as submersed form which I think is really cool as it means it should get going straight away. Though I think it may still need to transition to my water.

Quite a different colour to some of the other Rotalas I've seen, the leaves have cooler tones to it which I hope blends in as it starts to bush, that corner has quite a lot species in so I might need to review when I work out what works and what doesnt over there.

Wills

View attachment 130691Any plans to put life stock in it ? Or was it purely for plants ..

I think my shrimp will love your tank ...

 

[Wills]

After maintenance tonight, Co2 on very low at about 1bps and its so low that the drop checker does not change colour, lifted back on my fert regieme so dosing 2-3ml vs 5-6ml a day of tropical premium (red one). Noticed a change in algae, loosing the staghorn but got a very fine green thread and some kind of green spot. From what I've read it is due to low phosphate which is understandable in a tank like this, when I can get some snails they should help out with all this though.

Tried to buy fish this weekend on two occasions, neither worked out. Took my baby daughter to the LFS for the first time and she loved it so even my wife is on board with it all now I've been trying to hammer home the 'its educational' line for a while now so glad thats paying off!

Trimmed the Rotala Ceylon in the back right for the first time and tries to re plant some stems still a big gap you can see which is annoying but hopefully it should bush out like on the left and I finally get that lush back drop I've wanted for this tank.

I'm enjoying the reflections to the left and right on this tank too.

 

[Advanced Aquarist]

Co2 on very low at about 1bps

For your tank I'd keep it that way. Even better get it down to 1 bubble every TWO seconds, that is 30 bpm (bubbles per minute. You really don't need that much, despite what the common consensus by other self appointed "experts" say. Most recent books are wrong about this too.

I'm running 1.5 bps (90 bpm) on 360 litres. I could of done according to recommendations but I see no reason to. It's been 6 months and my 3kg cylinder is still not empty.

Drop checker is blue, so about 9 mgl CO2 and not 30 mgl as most recommend. And I also don't bother with this nonsense about "stable" CO2, that's just a myth.

lifted back on my fert regieme so dosing 2-3ml vs 5-6ml a day of tropical premium (red one). Noticed a change in algae, loosing the staghorn but got a very fine green thread and some kind of green spot. From what I've read it is due to low phosphate

and that's what I expected to happen when you cut down on your excessive fert dosing.

However you've exchange one set of problems for another.

If you read most advice about GSA (Green Spot Algae) they always says low phosphate, but that's actually false. I know of people running tanks with low phosphate without GSA. The first question to ask is: how high a phosphate level are they recommending? From my own tank my consumption is about 0.2 ppm per day, which is about 1.4 ppm a week. This what I have to dose and it's a pitiful amount.

The main reason why they prescribe more phosphate to fix GSA is not actually to do with the fact that phosphate cures GSA, rather what phosphate does as a compound in the chemistry of the water. We all know that phosphate removers in the reef aquarium are ferric oxides, and the way they work is they bind to the phosphate and precipitate it out of solution. Reef keepers run very low phosphate levels (about 0.01 ppm is ideal for them).

So the real reason increasing phosphate "cures" GSA is not because of the phosphate itself, but rather it helps precipitate out the high levels of traces (heavy metals) in your tank.

But unfortunately the last point leads to your fertiliser. You are dosing an AIO fert which is not optimal, and you can't control the individual phosphate level in it. By lowering your dosage you'll kill off one type of algae that thrives at certain high levels and then moved onto feeding another type. To have proper control you have to mix your own. This is the reason I don't recommend AIO fertilisers.

 

[seangee]

So the real reason increasing phosphate "cures" GSA is not because of the phosphate itself, but rather it helps precipitate out the high levels of traces (heavy metals) in your tank

Good news is that if the high traces are down to tap water that will be cured when yo switch to RO.

 

[Advanced Aquarist]

Good news is that if the high traces are down to tap water that will be cured when yo switch to RO.

It won't get rid of them all. Which is why I recommend using a post DI filter also.

If I don't use DI after my RO I can induce brown diatom algae in my tank. That's how important it is.

When discussing traces the reason why most people overdose is because commercially fertilisers got the ratios wrong, and their instructions for dosing are way OTT!!!!

When dosing traces we are talking about parts per BILLION. Not ppm (parts per million). It's not mgl (milligrams per litre), it's MICRO grams per litre. For this reason mixing your own traces requires a milligram scale - somewhat delicate work for some trace elements.

And because of the last point even a little bit of heavy metals that make it through the RO unit can throw your trace dosing out of whack.

 

[Wills]

Thanks guys, at the moment this tank is just coasting through so using up my all in one for now.

This is the RO unit I am ordering hopefully this week - https://www.directwaterfilters.co.u...verse-osmosis-pumped-system-with-lcd-496.html

I'm going to exchange the carbon filter for a DI one so that should give me a totally level playing field to get things in order.

Are there any off the shelf ferts that you would recommend? Paying out for this unit plus a 3 way tap sort of maxes out my 'hobby money' for the month haha. I would prefer to buy a couple of products that would suit my needs rather than going to the lengths of mixing my own from trace elements on a specialist scale - appreciate that might be absolute best practise but there must be a middle ground? None of my plants are particularly hard to grow, and once I've eliminated my issues from tap water using off the shelf ferts must be a simple way through otherwise these companies wouldnt exist surely?

Wills

PS please can someone tell me they actually like my tank as I seem to only get grief in here haha

 

[Advanced Aquarist]

That RO unit is complete overkill. It makes 800 gpd!!! Why do you need to do that?

Can't you get something like this?

4 stage RO

much cheaper and if you get the 50 gpd one it would suit you. How much water do you want to make a day anyway? I'm running an 50 gpd under sink system! I just plumb the water to fill overnight if I need to make water.

Also the one you linked has a pressure pump with it, is your cold water mains supply not strong enough?

Are there any off the shelf ferts that you would recommend? Paying out for this unit plus a 3 way tap sort of maxes out my 'hobby money' for the month haha. I would prefer to buy a couple of products that would suit my needs rather than going to the lengths of mixing my own from trace elements on a specialist scale - appreciate that might be absolute best practise but there must be a middle ground? None of my plants are particularly hard to grow, and once I've eliminated my issues from tap water using off the shelf ferts must be a simple way through otherwise these companies wouldnt exist surely?

There are some but (and this is a big BUT), they try to cater to the "general user". We have no idea who the general user is since water supplies vary.

If this fert issue was settled then what are there sooooo many posts on planted tank forums asking how to fix algae issues? Most companies making ferts have done minimal research on them anyway, they just follow what the others have done or try to copy the other's ratios etc. . . Add the variability of everyone's water into the mix and we got the mess we are in.

If this fert issue was settled then why are there so many different brands using different formulas etc?

And also why all the controversy and raging arguments in planted tank forums, with some users even getting banned for speaking what others don't want to hear?

Because the brutal truth of the matter is that no one really has the full picture, some get lucky with the water and dosing regimes and plant choices and other variables, and most don't know what the hell they are on about but spout the same garbage all the time.

You got social media influencers who are mostly idiots but promote themselves as experts, and honest hobbyists trying to sort things out and everyone else in between. Add to this that some aquatic companies have paid certain influencers to promote their products and agenda, then we see that there is a conflict of interest going on when it comes to getting the right advice - if that even could be had.

To be honest with you: I don't have all the answers. Even the person I take advice from doesn't have all the answers either. BUT what we do know does ruffled a few feathers in the other forums because either they're idiots or their so called experts don't like being invalidated or made to look like fools. (One of them has even got a book out recently and he gives bad advice in it, I wouldn't read that piece of garbage if you paid me) That's why we got banned from the other forums.

So here what I know:

1) I don't get BGA (Blue Green Algae)

2) I don't get BBA (Black Brush Algae)

3) I don't need to run excessive levels of CO2 to 30 mgl which basically pi$$es the fish off - they don't like high CO2 levels, trust me on this

4) I run my light about 12 hours a day now with dimming. Most of those experts advise much less, my question is: why? Most plants see about 12 hours of light a day, so give it to them!

5) I know how to prevent diatom algae

6) And I rarely do water changes. The so called "polite" experts are advising water changes every week, some are doing it twice a week.

And maybe some more on the list. I need to chase down GSA and GDA on my tank, but it's not out of control like most tanks that I need to do a water change every week!

I have to tell you this so you can have realistic expectations, because this what you're dealing with.

Since I have a milligram scale and all the traces etc. . . PM your address and I'll make a trace element solution for you to use, this is based on the ratios I've been recommended. I am also using this mixture myself. I can also add some macros that you have to put into another bottle. I'm only doing this because, to be honest, you'll be surprised at how pitifully small an amount of traces you'll be using - and macros too, this is just going to cost me pennies, I'll just charge you the postage for sending it to you. But I'll have to tailor the traces to the water hardness you're going to be using, and I take it you'll want to still be doing some water changes every week?

Here's a site to remineralise your water the cheap way if you haven't bough the water hardener yet:

remineralised

 

[Wills]

That RO unit is complete overkill. It makes 800 gpd!!! Why do you need to do that?

Can't you get something like this?

4 stage RO

much cheaper and if you get the 50 gpd one it would suit you. How much water do you want to make a day anyway? I'm running an 50 gpd under sink system! I just plumb the water to fill overnight if I need to make water.

Also the one you linked has a pressure pump with it, is your cold water mains supply not strong enough?



There are some but (and this is a big BUT), they try to cater to the "general user". We have no idea who the general user is since water supplies vary.

If this fert issue was settled then what are there sooooo many posts on planted tank forums asking how to fix algae issues? Most companies making ferts have done minimal research on them anyway, they just follow what the others have done or try to copy the other's ratios etc. . . Add the variability of everyone's water into the mix and we got the mess we are in.

If this fert issue was settled then why are there so many different brands using different formulas etc?

And also why all the controversy and raging arguments in planted tank forums, with some users even getting banned for speaking what others don't want to hear?

Because the brutal truth of the matter is that no one really has the full picture, some get lucky with the water and dosing regimes and plant choices and other variables, and most don't know what the hell they are on about but spout the same garbage all the time.

You got social media influencers who are mostly idiots but promote themselves as experts, and honest hobbyists trying to sort things out and everyone else in between. Add to this that some aquatic companies have paid certain influencers to promote their products and agenda, then we see that there is a conflict of interest going on when it comes to getting the right advice - if that even could be had.

To be honest with you: I don't have all the answers. Even the person I take advice from doesn't have all the answers either. BUT what we do know does ruffled a few feathers in the other forums because either they're idiots or their so called experts don't like being invalidated or made to look like fools. (One of them has even got a book out recently and he gives bad advice in it, I wouldn't read that piece of garbage if you paid me) That's why we got banned from the other forums.

So here what I know:

1) I don't get BGA (Blue Green Algae)

2) I don't get BBA (Black Brush Algae)

3) I don't need to run excessive levels of CO2 to 30 mgl which basically pi$$es the fish off - they don't like high CO2 levels, trust me on this

4) I run my light about 12 hours a day now with dimming. Most of those experts advise much less, my question is: why? Most plants see about 12 hours of light a day, so give it to them!

5) I know how to prevent diatom algae

6) And I rarely do water changes. The so called "polite" experts are advising water changes every week, some are doing it twice a week.

And maybe some more on the list. I need to chase down GSA and GDA on my tank, but it's not out of control like most tanks that I need to do a water change every week!

I have to tell you this so you can have realistic expectations, because this what you're dealing with.

Since I have a milligram scale and all the traces etc. . . PM your address and I'll make a trace element solution for you to use, this is based on the ratios I've been recommended. I am also using this mixture myself. I can also add some macros that you have to put into another bottle. I'm only doing this because, to be honest, you'll be surprised at how pitifully small an amount of traces you'll be using - and macros too, this is just going to cost me pennies, I'll just charge you the postage for sending it to you. But I'll have to tailor the traces to the water hardness you're going to be using, and I take it you'll want to still be doing some water changes every week?

Here's a site to remineralise your water the cheap way if you haven't bough the water hardener yet:

remineralised

Thanks for this sorry not replied for a while wanted to get time to read it properly

I'm going for that RO system so I can run it through the kitchen tap, which means I should get the 50-60 ltrs I need for a change in about half an hour. The pumped system will help keep this consistent through winter too as I've heard it can be effected.

With this approach to fertiliser and Co2 what sort of light level should I aim for? I have a Twinstar SM 600 which gives me 66 watts and its currently at 80%. I dont really want to replace the unit but can turn it down?

Really generous of you to offer the fertiliser mixture are you sure that would be ok?

Wills

 

[Advanced Aquarist]

It's only affected if your water pipe completely freezes! I don't understand why you're spending so much money on an RO unit that does 800 gpd!!! That's a lot of water which you'll never use regularly, so what happens is your unit starts and stops at long intervals, hardly a good thing for an RO unit. I find they work best when always in use, hence I use my under sink unit for my drinking/cooking water too and bleed off overnight to a storage tank if I need to make water for the next day.

Your lights are fine, get one of those dimming control units for it since you can do the sunrise and sunset affects so the fish won't be shocked. They're cheap, about £25 or so. There is nothing wrong with running lights at high intensity. Of course any fertilisation problems will show up quicker because of the high light levels, BUT the cause is the fertilisation mix and NOT the lights. Using low light is just a way to mitigate (or mask) problems in the dosing regime - hardly a good thing is it?

You're going to be very surprised how CHEAP all this fert stuff is. I think most of the expense in planted tanks are the lights, filter, CO2 equipment, the aquarium and cabinet, substrate and plants to fill it. Once the system is dialled in and maintained there's very little expense.

 

[Wills]

It's only affected if your water pipe completely freezes! I don't understand why you're spending so much money on an RO unit that does 800 gpd!!! That's a lot of water which you'll never use regularly, so what happens is your unit starts and stops at long intervals, hardly a good thing for an RO unit. I find they work best when always in use, hence I use my under sink unit for my drinking/cooking water too and bleed off overnight to a storage tank if I need to make water for the next day.

Your lights are fine, get one of those dimming control units for it since you can do the sunrise and sunset affects so the fish won't be shocked. They're cheap, about £25 or so. There is nothing wrong with running lights at high intensity. Of course any fertilisation problems will show up quicker because of the high light levels, BUT the cause is the fertilisation mix and NOT the lights. Using low light is just a way to mitigate (or mask) problems in the dosing regime - hardly a good thing is it?

You're going to be very surprised how CHEAP all this fert stuff is. I think most of the expense in planted tanks are the lights, filter, CO2 equipment, the aquarium and cabinet, substrate and plants to fill it. Once the system is dialled in and maintained there's very little expense.

I'm limited on space in the kitchen so thought this would be the best option - we would be using it for drinking and cooking water too so wouldnt be totally wasted. I wouldnt be able to have storage water to drain off up here, it could go in the basement but that project has it a couple of delays so just want to get moving with it as i dont want to stock my tanks until the RO unit is here. I know its expensive but is there any reason not to get this one other than that? Given I want direct flow it feels like the right one?

I've got the dimmer Set on for 6 hours a day at the moment with 15 min ramp ups and downs.

 

[Advanced Aquarist]

If you're running a window cleaning or a car wash business I would say go for it. 800 gpd is phenomenal!!! It really is. Hardly any fish keeper would want such a powerful unit unless he's running a 2000+ litre tank and needs to change the water really quickly!!

Also if you're going to run DI through it then that's counter productive anyway because DI needs to be flowed SLOWLY. If you run it fast it will be less effective.

Undersink RO units are what most people use, the storage tank is like 9 litres or so, takes about an hour to fill (50 gpd membrane), and used regularly, emptied for cooking and making tea/coffee etc. . . As long as you got space for the pressurised tank and RO unit you are good to fit one in. You can then use it to take 9 litres of water at a time. So doing a 30 litre water change takes three fills, spread over some time which the fish will appreciate.

You only got a 100 litre tank, so doing 9 litre water changes at a time is probably better. Why you want something so big and so fast in beyond me. You're not in a hurry all the time are you? All the good things happen slowly in this hobby.