Aquaclear Vs. Penguin

[smmetz]

Wow, what a thread.

As far as self priming: If I unplug and plug in any of my HOB filters, they restart with no problems. Self priming would only apply if there was no water by the impaler. If you simply cut power to a HOB filter, there is still water in the basket. (unless you keep your water level so low that it all gets siphoned out) The arguement that Penguin filters are better because they can supposedly self prime is only valid therefore if you keep your water level a few inches from the top of your tank. I personally dont do that with any of my tanks.

Thx Tolak for undertaking a side by side comparison.

I would suggest a few tests.

1. bio filtration - seems to be the hot topic when people talk about the benefits of bio-wheels. Therefore, I would try to find the maximum bio filtration of each filter. Cyclign a tank with the same amount of amonia in each will result in the same sized bacteria colony in each filter. Therefore, adding amonia at this point should yield similar results in each tank when measuring the time it takes to comsume the amonia. After the tank is cycled, I would increase the amount of amonia added each day. The bacteria colonies would grow larger and larger. Eventually, theroretically, one filter will no longer have the capacity to support any more beneficial bacteria. I think this would be a good way to test the MAX bio filtration of each filter. (however, I admit I am still new to the hobby, and Tolak might have some better ideas on this)

2. As Tolak mentioned, test how strong the pumps are. How low can the water go with the pumps still sucking the water up and through the filter. My money is on the AC for this comparison.

3. The mechanical filtration test. If we are so worried about filter maintenance, then we definitly want to see which can hold the most debris and still maintain enough water flow to effectivly filter the tank. If you can't see the value in this test PaPeRo, I don't know what to say.

 

[Griz]

This has been a very interesting read.

AquaClears are the only filter I've ever used and I have some that have been in use, and off, for more than 20 years. I have found them to be very quiet, reliable, easy to clean and versatile. I have media sponges in use that are over 3 years old and show no signs of failing. I'm listening to the pros and cons of Biowheels with open ears but for me, it'll be a tough sell.

 

[PaPeRo]

Wow, what a thread.

As far as self priming: If I unplug and plug in any of my HOB filters, they restart with no problems. Self priming would only apply if there was no water by the impaler. If you simply cut power to a HOB filter, there is still water in the basket. (unless you keep your water level so low that it all gets siphoned out) The arguement that Penguin filters are better because they can supposedly self prime is only valid therefore if you keep your water level a few inches from the top of your tank. I personally dont do that with any of my tanks.

I don't have an AC HOB to test so I can only go by what was said about the lack of self priming in the ACs. I have a tiny AZOO HOB that doesn't self prime and if I unplug it and leave it for maybe 30 seconds and plug it back in it won't start flowing. It'll just swirl the water inside the filter. How long did you wait after unplugging the AC HOB before you plugged it back in?

Also if you don't follow the directions then that's your problem not the filter's problem ie if your water level is below the recommend level. My water level is always less than 2 cm from the bottom of the water return ramp. Any lower and it starts to make loud splashing noise.

1. bio filtration - seems to be the hot topic when people talk about the benefits of bio-wheels. Therefore, I would try to find the maximum bio filtration of each filter. Cyclign a tank with the same amount of amonia in each will result in the same sized bacteria colony in each filter. Therefore, adding amonia at this point should yield similar results in each tank when measuring the time it takes to comsume the amonia. After the tank is cycled, I would increase the amount of amonia added each day. The bacteria colonies would grow larger and larger. Eventually, theroretically, one filter will no longer have the capacity to support any more beneficial bacteria. I think this would be a good way to test the MAX bio filtration of each filter. (however, I admit I am still new to the hobby, and Tolak might have some better ideas on this)

Sounds like a good test but it's still artificial because in the realworld you'd have fish which compete with the bacteria for O2.

You'd also still have to do this test for long term at least a few months not short term. Any submerged media filter can work well in the early stages when the bio-media isn't clogged. What I want to know is the long term bio-filtration performance with no maintenance.

2. As Tolak mentioned, test how strong the pumps are. How low can the water go with the pumps still sucking the water up and through the filter. My money is on the AC for this comparison.

Again this is a pretty pointless test for those who don't do HUGE water changes every week which is the MAJORITY of fish keepers. For the FEW breeders who do HUGE water changes to get their fish to spawn it's a benefit, for others it's just a checkmark feature and have ZERO tangible benefit whatsoever.

3. The mechanical filtration test. If we are so worried about filter maintenance, then we definitly want to see which can hold the most debris and still maintain enough water flow to effectivly filter the tank. If you can't see the value in this test PaPeRo, I don't know what to say.

See what you don't get is that an accelerated test like this is completely artificial. Particulate matter accumulates over months not minutes unless your tank is totally filthy in which case you should exit the hobby ASAP. In those few months you'd be replacing the carbon cartridges on the Biowheel while on the AC you'd be replacing the carbon pillow. This is where the Biowheel comes out ahead because the cartridge contains the filter floss so all the crap that gets caught on it will be tossed out with the carbon without any need for rinsing. On the AC you'd only be replacing the carbon pillow while the sponge gets no rinsing. What that means is that the efficiency will drop because of the crap on the sponge continues to accumulate and decompose producing waste products that get dumped back into the tank.

Oh btw if you want to see a controlled scientific test of various types of biofiltration read this article. The test wasn't done by Marineland so there's no trickery involved. Also the test is done with fish and over a long time period and takes into account maintenance and reliability. The raw data speaks for itself.

To help with filter selection it would be good to have the various types of filters compared so that their strengths and weaknesses can be evaluated. These types of studies are rare. But this month, I will review the results of one such study which were recently published. The study is entitled: "Evaluation of various biofilters in an intensive recirculating fish production facility". The authors are P. W. Westerman, T. M. Losordo and M. L. Wildhaber. The paper was published in 1997 in the Transactions of the American Society of Agricultural Engineers Volume 39, issue 2 pages 723-727.

In this study they compared the following types of biofilters: Upflow sand filters, fluidized bed sand filters, floating bead filters and rotating biological contactors (RBC) in various combinations. Each filter was connected to a tank containing 18,900 liters of water which was stocked with a hybrid red tilapia. Freshwater exchange on a daily basis was 9 to 11% of the total tank volume. The actual set-up was as follows:

Tank 1 had four upflow sand filters
Tank 2 had one upflow sand filter and two fluidized bed sand filters
Tank 3 had two floating bead filters and
Tank 4 had one upflow sand filter and one RBC.

Water testing was for pH, carbon dioxide (CO2), total ammonia-nitrogen (TAN), nitrite-nitrogen (NO2-N), dissolved oxygen (DO), and suspended solids (SS) was performed for each filters on each tank twice a week for 5 months. Water flow rates through the filters were also measured. One time water samples were taken every 4 hours for 24 hours to investigate the diurnal water quality pattern.
The result were as follows:

Ammonia Oxidation: The filters were evaluated in terms of their ability to oxidize ammonia (or nitrite) by measuring the difference between the ammonia concentration on the influent and effluent sides of the filter. This difference was then expressed as a percentage reduction of ammonia (or nitrite) for each day measured and then averaged over the course of the test. Thus a higher reduction means more ammonia (or nitrite) was oxidized as the water passed through the filter. Therefore, a higher reduction is better.

Average ammonia reduction was lowest in the fluidized bed filters (Tank 2) with an average ammonia reduction of 24 percent (the average was 29 and 19 percent for the two filters). The performance of the sand filters (Tank 1) and the bead filters (Tank 3) were nearly identical with average ammonia reduction of 31.25 (with individual filter averages of 40, 27, 39 and 19 percent) and 31 percent (36 and 26 percent for the two filters. The RBC (Tank 4) had the greatest ammonia reduction average of 67% over the course of the test.

Nitrite Oxidation: Nitrite (NO2-N) concentration was higher in sand and bead filters (Tanks 1 and 3 , respectively) over the course of the test. The mean reduction of nitrite for the four sand filters on Tank 1 were 6, -1, 54 and 9 percent of the influent nitrite level. It seems that sand filter number 2 never really established the ability to completely nitrify. The percent nitrite reduction for the two bead filters of Tank 3 was 0 and 6. Again, one filter seemingly failed to establish complete nitrification. The fluidized bed filters (Tank 2) operated more effectively, reducing nitrite 19 and 16 percent. The RBC on Tank 4 was the most effective in reducing nitrite with a mean percentage of 59.

Other results: The researchers noted other performance particulars with some of the filters. The sand filters and the fluidized bed filters tended to lose sand which had to be periodically replaced. Only the bead filter removed significant amounts of suspended solids.

Conclusions from this test: This test showed that the RBC was able to reduce more ammonia and nitrite than the other filter evaluated "thus making it appear to be the most efficient remover of both TAN and NO2-N."

The researchers also noted the following conclusions about the various filters:
Sand Filters: These "filters became clogged with solids and back-flushing became a time-consuming process." They noted that this system had operating problems and water quality was poor in the latter stages of the test. Maintenance was also a problem with these filters.

Upflow Sand Filter and Fluidized Bed Filters (Tank 2): Fish growth was good in this system but sand would flush out of both types of filters (so it had to be replaced) and there were problems getting and keeping the sand beds in the fluidized state. The sand bed in both filter types packed and "the upflow sand filter media began to 'gel' with a bacterial slime."

Floating Bead Filters: After 100 days of operation these units had problems because they retained solids which lead to high TAN concentrations and poor water quality. Cleaning the systems did not significantly improve the situation.

Rotating Biological Contactor: "Performance of this system was the most consistent of all of the systems. The RBC proved to be the most reliable nitrifying filter."

The researches noted that all four types of biofilters can be good biofilters but they have different operational and maintenance requirements which cannot be ignored if they are to continue to operate. There were significant differences in the amount of time and effort required for maintenance for the various filters.

 

[Tolak]

PaPeRo;

Haven’t even done yet, spent time & money. Yup, I got those 2 filters for free, didn’t spend any money. I’ll take a picture of the filters in the unopened boxes, but it probably won’t matter, as you’ll need scientific research to prove they are actually pictures.

Instead of tearing every word of every sentence of every post apart, which is really becoming an exercise in futility, I’ll just figure you are like every other argumentative person with a temper. Swatting flies with a shotgun. “Likewise any moron would know these examples are utterly useless and shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.†is about as far as they let it go here with insulting comments. While it doesn’t bother me in the least personally, others may find it offensive. Treading a fine line, but that’s ok by me. I kind of feel bad for people like you, such a tone of sarcasm that others have a hard time taking you as being rational or serious. I learned long ago that it’s a waste of time to try to be rational with irrational people.

As far as anyone else reading this thread, smmetz raised an interesting idea, though the nitrates produced would probably require daily water changes, something that is no big deal for me. I also had a biggie I thought of that was totally overlooked; sand substrate. None of my tanks have sand, and sand is a known impeller & shaft eater. I’d like to figure a way to fit this into this little test. I’ll ask for ideas with some of my buddies over the next few days, I’m sure some will pop up. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[IceMan569]

Well I have 4 aqua clear now

Aqua Clear mini ,150,200,And 300

They are GREAT NEver let me Down

HAd all them between 4-6 years
Never had one die !!!!!!
Never had to change the sponge ( just rise ) like new then

Power go out 95% or more Comes Right Back On

Went up to 6 or more months and didn't clean my ac 300 and all was fine

Room for extra sponge or Carbs

I love them

the only down fall i seen if u over load on carbs or amm or sponge & they get to dirty can over flow (but more my fault then AC )

Also can buy filter bags empty and can buy a box of carbon and wash out the bags and empty and refill bags

so cheaper then buying ac carbon bags


AC way to go

 

[jollysue]

I do find the name calling distracting. But even worse, it makes for wasted reading in already lenghty posts.

I mentioned the self priming aspect:

1. I had noticed that I annoyingly had to prime the AC 70 filters, when I do water changes. While I am looking for a pitcher or cup to prime with, the Emperors are zooming along. This is not enough inconvienience to make a difference.

2. I remembered Inchworm mentioning that while she was gone, her electricity had gone out and what I believe was her ACs had not self primed, creating a real problem for her. She was considering changing filters.

4. The only time I have to prime an Emperor, is when I have to take them out of the tank to service. The water sprays and empeller baskets need to be serviced occasionally.

3. I noticed the other day when I turned off the filters and turned them on again, the small ACs started right up.

So, I am not sure about the ACs self priming reliability, perhaps it depends on the flow through the sponge (dirty sponges?).

I have more problems with the Penguin than the Emperor. The bio wheels sometimes bog down and stop turning when the Penguin needs servicing, whereas the Emperor's adjusting spray and stonger water flow keep it functioning.

At this point I am using all three: AC, Penguin, Emperor. I would always choose an Emperor over a Penguin, space allowing. They each have positives and negatives. I seldom will choose a Whisper and have retired one. I think given the choice of AC and Emperor, I would use one of each.

So I will await the results of the tests. Wouldn't someone like to test the priming reliability?

For all involved in this "discussion," I would like to suggest that we spend less time on hysteronics and name calling and ego and more time on discovering information about the filters.

O yes, one more comment: There are indeed fish that have leaves and such legitamately added to their tanks

 

[PaPeRo]

Yes SOME breeders may want to add floating leaves for spawning purposes, but we're not testing for niche applications, we're testing for standard applications. Oh and no more name calling from me.

 

[jollysue]

Just a bit of an aside: Debris of leaves, etc., on the bottom is used in some wild Betta tanks, and I think I saw it mentioned in connection with Badis badis tanks. These are species specific niches but aren't they all? B)

 

[smmetz]

I can see self priming being an annoyance issue when doing water changes, if you are also changing cartridges or rinsing you sponge. In that case, I personally unplug the filter, dump all the water in it out, rinse / replace the media, and then put the filter back. Now the filter has no water in it. It is could self prime, I would not have to dump a pitcher of water into the filter at this point.

During regular water changes, I just leave the filter running, and so self priming is not an issue.

If there is some water in the basket, my filters always manage to self prime. In the case of a power outage, in my tanks, there is still water in the intake tube and the filter box when I disconnect the power. Therefore, no priming is needed, and the filter starts right up again. I only have experience with Whisper and AC HOB filters. The whispers sometimes need a tap to get the impaler going again.

 

[jollysue]

I use tap water, so I wouldn't want to keep my filters running during water changes.

The reason I mentioned it is because of an experience, as I said that I had heard second hand, of ACs that did not start up after a power failure, and no one was there. And I thought that perhaps it could have been caused by a dirty sponge or something--just speculating the cause.

 

[RESGuy]

Wow! What an interesting and lengthy topic! Props to the one who started it

I myself and proud to read that so many people are happy with their ACs I bought one for my tank bout a year ago even after many people said it wasn't exactly my best choice. But now that I do have it I think it is great as many otheres here have said! I have the Aquaclear 110/500 for my 55 gal. long. Though the water level is about 5-6 inches from the top because it is a turtle/fish tank But I have solved the obvious noise and splahing of water all over my room!!! I simply attacked a piece of plexiglass (or clear plastic) to the filter and the water just slides of it into the waater. Of course it is not perfect because the plexiglass I added isn't the right with so some drops can be heard but Im working on raising the water level so that I won't even need that. My problem is the turtle because it needs an above water basking platform which he has but it has to be far from the top to prevent escape and he has to be like 8-9 inches from the basking light and UVB light. IF anyone reading this has a turtle and is having a similar problem then my suggestion would be an above tank basking area. Let me give you some link to good designs:

http/www.turtletimes.com/Forums/index.ph...nk+basking+area
http/www.turtletimes.com/Forums/index.ph...nk+basking+area
http/www.turtletimes.com/Forums/index.ph...nk+basking+area
http/www.turtletimes.com/Forums/index.ph...nk+basking+area



P.S. Sorry for my off topic ramblings, though as I can see quite a few people have rambled off topic Good to have a mod in here though controling some peculiar attitudes "Fighting through a forum is like the special olympics even if you win, you're still retarded". Hope I didn't offend anyone with that quote though ....

 

[xoedusk]

Fighting through a forum is like the special olympics even if you win, you're still retarded

Very politically incorrect. But very funny.

 

[RESGuy]

Yeah it is I read it on a bulletin on MySpace a while back