Aqua Garden - Mr G's 40ltr Oddball Tank Journal !

[MoreCoffee]

Edit 08/05/06 :
Title changed and will continue this as a journal on this tank.
Advice from fourm members has already proved very useful is the planning of this tank.


...Thanks !

===========================================================
Having got a good deal of inspiration, education and enjoyment from reading a number of the tank 'journals' on this forum (particularly the nano projects) I've decided its time to get my next tank started.

I've recently aquired this ...

The tank is 24" x 14" x 9" deep at the front and 16" deep at the back.
The over tank lighting consists of a single 36W T5 tube.

I'm planning on trying the EI method with this tank ... I'd kick myself for not at least trying it !
As the tank is open topped I'll be looking for a suitable plant for the back ... something that will grow
out above the waterline (and hopefully flower)

Before I can really get started, I have a couple of questions about this tanks setup.....

1. Can I use an external filter on this tank ?
I was planning on using an external filter, but due to the design of the tank there will be a drop about
8 inches from the back of the tank to the waterline ... then obviously a bit more to get below the water.

I think I may need to use a small internal filter and hide it as best as I can ...... I'm not too keen on getting
somebody to drill it ... although its an option for the future.

2. I'm planning on using a substrate of Eco-complete. Is it best to use this on its own or mixed with either
gravel or sand ?

Any suggestions / thoughts very welcome


Mr G

 

[craynerd]

Mr G,

That tank looks mad! Cool shape!

GO external with your filter. I have spoke to a few well respected members of TFF and nature aquarists, they have all said EXTERNAL all the way! If my tank wasn`t a Jewel all in one (got it as a nooby with no research) then i would definately go external! I mean i am even setting up a nano as we speak and have got an Eheim canister filter for that!!

I think the dip in your tank will cause a little problem with regards to looks but i think if you payed the $£$£$ and got a nice lily bar or glass outflow alike it would look super and wouldn`t cause an issue! Also you can get glass like U bends (unsure of there real name) and this would make it even more asthetically pleasing!!


I`ve done a lot of reading and don`t know what to make of eco-complete. It seems it is certainly not rated very highly on its own. I know Sam has issues with it used alone and i have seen a few other posts on other forums with average reports. I`ve done my research for my new tank and got it down to flurite or laterite both with gravel. I ended up opting for laterite, but it was a flip of a coin! I suppose DYOR is needed!

With regards of hardscaping mate i can see a perfect addition to that tank. I NICE large piece of bog wood or root wood breaking OUT of the water surface and leaning against the empty back of the tank!! Would look fantstic, just my opinion.

Good luck, i`ll be watching closely. Very interesting.

Chris

btw, what CO2 setup you having?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Craynerd, Thanks for the reply.....

The unusual shape is partly responsible for the 'impulse purchase' of this tank ... it was just sitting there
begging me to take it !!

I'd really like to go external and I've read the setup you are using and would ideally like something similar.

Yes, glass tubing would be a good way to hide all the pipes, I was a little concerned about the actual 'drop'
from tank rim to waterline and what (if any) effect this would have on the operation of the pump itself.

Is there a limit to the 'drop' distance with external filters ? ... not something I've ever had to think about before.

With an external I could also use an inline heater and avoid the need for further equipment clutter in the tank.

As for the CO2. Well I'm not sure exactly what system to use ... the '£' factor may limit my choice, but I'm going for a pressurised system.

I like the bogwood/root wood idea. It's something I've already been thinking about. I'd need a piece that will complement one of the smaller bits that will be going in it. That piece has some java fern and Christmas moss attached.

I may still use Eco-complete ( I know somebody who has a spare bag) and try mixing it with laterite or flourite ... still undecided.

 

[Graeme Edwards]

That is a wicked tank, i dont care what anyone els may say its different which is always good.

I would like to know more about that light you have.

As for your external filter you could go for the Hydor prime10 external with the Hydor in line filter, i cant see a problem with the drop, my H-prime10 will filter my tank half empty no worries and thats a good 8inches below normal level.

The only thing with your lighting is its situated to the rear of the tank, so your going to have to choose your plants accordingly.

I would consider hard scaping it in accordance with your tank shape, so start low at the front and high at the back, if you dont want to do that then do it with your plants.

So for a "Nature Aquarium" if thats your thing ( its mine and half of this forums) i would suggest going for a carpet of moss, you can do this by getting some Hessian sacking and sewing some moss of your choice to the Hessian then pining it in place.

Then go for some narrow leaf java furn micrsorum Philippine,some cyperus helferi, its a real nice rush that throws star like flowers out of the water.

Thats enough suggestions now, plants are a personal choice.

Hope this helps.

Graeme

 

[craynerd]

Is there a limit to the 'drop' distance with external filters ? ... not something I've ever had to think about before

I have just checked this for you, as best i can, but it is like i thought. There is no limit to the drop or anything else, the only factor which is the same for all externals is that the canister must be below water level as one can imagine.


Regarding external heating. I have looked at the Hydor external heater but i am still not totally convinced! I have spoke to two people whos have both broke down within a year! Moody recommended one i know, but i think some of the new Eheims have a built in heater someone may be able to confirm this!

Good luck mate

Chris

 

[Luke_e]

That is an amazing style tank there!
One question, the light seems asif its concentrating above the rear of the tank, will this effect the front plants?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Thanks everybody...... lots to think about here ...

Most people who have seen the tank have the same reaction ... WoW thats unusual !
(As I've said it was partly the reason it came home with me ), I'm just hoping its 'out of the ordinary' look doesnt have any drawbacks on actual use !

I'm going to go with the external filter, probably get one ordered today. To start with I'll just use the
standard pipework that comes with it, but in time I'll investigate some less 'visible options' to try reduce visibility of the equipment up the rear wall of the tank.

I'll investigate the inline heater option a little more, but I have a spare 25W heater I can use to start with.
With that volume of water would an undergravel heating cable be enough to keep the water at a decent temperature ... personally I doubt it, but thought I'd ask anyway! I'm guessing the wattage required to keep the water warm/length of cable would cause problems.

I've got to get a pressurised CO2 system ordered.
I'm really itching to get this one started and had considered using a DIY yeast system for the first month or so. I've already got all the bits sitting around in my 'spares' cupboard. So its a temporary 'no cost' option.
Which is good as I've also just bought a 240Ltr tank & cabinet with overhead luminaire, so my 'fishkeeping pennies' are just about used up for the next month - - unless I can convince a certain lady these are essentials

The plan is definately to go pressurised CO2 though.

Moody:
I got the tank and lighting cheap (ex shop display).
It basically has a single 36W 'PL T5 tube'.
More info on the lighting can be found here www.aquapacific.co.uk
Use the menu system Products > Lighting > PR reflectors

I love the moss/hessian carpet idea. Do you have any more info on how to do this. Or a pic of the final effect ? I was going to use HC. May try combine both in a way that doesnt look too messed up.

Fishkiller_nomore:
The trailing pennywort idea might be quite a good effect, but wouldnt want it to block of the view into the front of the tank. I'm going to look at options on how I might be able to use it to hide pipework/heaters etc.


All:
Thanks for checking on the 'drop' for the filter uptake/return pipes. I couldnt see how it would be much
of a problem, but as I'd never even thought about it before I thought best to ask.

Some great suggestions on the hardscape and planting options.
I will have to take the position of the light into account (thanks for pointing this out) as most of the 36w is directed towards the mid/rear of the tank. With the tanks dimensions I think it is about 9.5 UK gallons (max) so less once setup, hopefully 36W over that amount of water will provide enough light towards the front to prevent any major problems.

Any suggestions on a decent 'carpet' plant/moss option that should be suitable for this ?

Regards
Mr G



=======Shopping list=======
External filter - Hydor Prime 10 or Eheim 2211
Pressurised CO2 + glass ceramic diffuser
Large Bogwood - suitable as main feature
======================

 

[DarkSeraph]

After thinking of this tank for a little bit, if I had it I wasn't sure what I'd do with it.

It looks a lot like a few Turtle tanks I've seen. They'll put rocks along the back and water in the front, so the turtles can we out of water or in.

On that though, I thought a few rocks along the back would be cool, maybe create a small waterfall or something. Though that will ruin the point of pressurized CO2, but more likely than not your plants will still get enough CO2. Research the natural CO2 method a bit.

Also you can use some Marginal plants, and actually grow some flowers 8) http/aquaticplantdepot.com/marginalplants.html

I'm interested to see what you're gonna do with it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"I'm interested to see what you're gonna do with it." You're not the only one .... I'm kind of curious myself !


Darkseraph, Thanks for the marginal plant link. There are a couple on there that look really good as long
as I can find a supplier in the UK.

I'm still quite keen on the bogwood look and have been considering going for a look similar to this example on
Aquatic Plant Central. Not sure about the contrast with the light/dark substrate though. ( just personal preference)

Link

It all depend on finding a source for the bogwood. I'll order online if needed, but I'd prefer a local supplies so I can actually see the size, shape etc. But the wood above the waterline should suit this oddball tank quite well.

I think I'm going for the Hydor Prime 10 for the filter and start off with DIY CO2.


Mr G

 

[Themuleous]

Hey there Mr G

You know what I think of the tank so will get straight to the advice;

Get external - by far the best option and in a small tank like this one, it wont take up any room in the tank, so more room for plants! Woohoo! You could try the Eheim 2211 Ive got it on my nano and the slower flow rate helps prevent the plants getting 'washed' all over the place! Not seen it in the UK so got mine from Germany, for the bargain price of 30quid including postage. There were a couple of threads re this filter a while back a search for '2211' would prob find them, you'll get more advice there. That said there must be other externals suitable, but certainly worth considering.

As to the eco-complete, from my own experince, its a great plant substrate! My HC lawn is testiment to that! That said Ive not tried any other plant substrates out so dont have any frame of reference, but dont discount it completely. The only problems I have had relate to planting stuff in it (not a huge problem just need more patients thant all!) and the fact that it increases KH. This will settle Im sure just just so you know . Have no complaints when I comes to help my plants grow.

Think there is huge potential for this tank to look great and also be a bit different, especially with the plants growing out the top

Have you considered planting pennywort (Hydrocotyle Verticillata) in the front and letting it creep over and hang off the glass? How about creeping jenny (Lysimachia Nummularia)?

I would agree, either of these two growing out the top and hanging over the back and sides of the tank would look very cool.

Hope that helps a bit

Sam

 

[MoreCoffee]

Thanks Themuleous,

I've just ordered an Eden 501 External filter for use in this tank. It should be here on Tuesday.

Having searched my local and not so local aquatics shops, i've struggled to find wood suitable for the look I was after, so now have a different layout in mind.

Basically will involve a hardscape of bogwood, with one piece breaking the surface of the water and a few good rocks.
planted with a foreground carpet of HC, some Lilaeopsis Brasillensis and Glosso for contrast.
Christmas moss on the rocks and wood and some taller, marginal plants (again breaking the surface) to the rear.

This will be my first real attempt at this type of tank, so I'll be posting a few pics and looking for some constructive critisism from the more experienced members.

Mr G

 

[danski]

i think eco-complete is a fantastic product to use..i use it by itself and my dwarf sag carpet practically took over my tank..i read the ada soil is a bit better but i dont think you will have any probs with the eco-complete..cant wait to see photos..

 

[MoreCoffee]

i think eco-complete is a fantastic product to use..i use it by itself and my dwarf sag carpet practically took over my tank..i read the ada soil is a bit better but i dont think you will have any probs with the eco-complete..cant wait to see photos..

Thanks ..... I think it will be towards the end of the week before I have all the bits in place and ready to make a start on this .... then no doubt it will need reworking numerous times to get it looking 'right'


Cheers
Mr G

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ok I've changed the title on this thread and turned it into a journal on this tank.

As you can see the tank is a little unusual and that is already dictating how this tank will look.

As a relative newcomer to the planted aquarium, I'll be asking a few questions and looking for some advice.
I hope most of the questions will be mainly to confirm that what I'm planning to do isn't likely to end in disaster.

================================================================

08/05/06: The planned setup:

Tank capacity with substrate in place 40 ltrs
Lighting 1 x 36W T5 luminare
Substrate: Eco-complete
Additional CO2 - DIY to start with, possibly moving to pressurised
Filter: Eden 501 external filter (upto 60L)
50W heater (rated upto 50L)

Current situation:
I was going to set the tank up next weekend as I'm still waiting for my filter and a piece of bogwood with Xmas moss to turn up. I'll also be getting a few more plants next weekend.
However, the HC in my other tanks was really looking like it needed the extra lighting this tank can provide, so a temporary setup is now in place.

I've used 1 bag of Eco-complete, a small Eheim Aquaball internal filter (it was spare), a DIY CO2 system with hardwood 'airstone' and the heater.

Added the water and let things settle for a few hours. The water was nice and clear all the way through.
Then I recovered the HC from my other tank and got it into the substrate along with a couple of pots of 'Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis' and got them into the tank. I also have a few floating 'water lettuce' in there to help with algae and there will be some fast growing stem plants going in tomorrow.

A few hours later and the HC is looking much happier


Even with this basic setup, I can see that my original plan for the tank is going to have to change.
Just using 1 bag of Eco-complete gives me between 1-1.5 inches of depth on the substrate ... Is this enough ?.
I think it should be more, however due to the oddball design of this tank even the current depth of substrate only gives me 6.5" water depth with 1.5" between water surface and tank rim.

Question:
So I think I should I go for less water volume and more substrate, or do you think I should stick with what I've got as none of the plants are likely to be too big and have a large root mass ?

Also, due to the limited water depth my original plan for this tank will have to change. I've got a couple of ideas using bogwood and rocks, that I can try.
I always knew it was going to be a shallow tank, but seeing it in place makes me realise just how shallow !!

Once I have all the bits in place next weekend I'll go for an initial setup and post a couple of pics to see if you guys can give me some feedback on how to make it better.

Mr G

Edit:
Online I found a PDF document about 'Bonsai Aquarium', and even more possibilities spring to mind !
Pity it's all in German !
... Just when you think you've got an idea of how to proceed, these comes along
!Bonsai Aquarium 1'
and this ....
'Bonsai Aquarium 2'

Stunning !

Shallow tank ... open top...... seems almost perfect for this tank, the only thing missing is my ability to create one of these works of art !

.......... damn that google image search, sometimes ignorance truly is bliss !

 

[Themuleous]

They are quality! Like a wole mini world inside a tank! Must give this a try when I get a chance

Sam