Api Stress Zyme

[MICKEYSWIFT]

Ive heard lots of brand names which sell friendly bacteria crucial for healthy aquariums.
I was just wondering what you fellow fish keepers thoughts on the API Stress Zyme as there quite a recognisable brand.
Thanks

 

[BigbruiserAl]

These products are regarded as a waste of money, the bacteria that we want in out tanks cannot survive in a bottle with no oxyen on a shelf

 

[drobbyb]

Yeah, good concept, but it still ends in dead bacteria. If you need proof, look at a sample under a microscope.

 

[MICKEYSWIFT]

So what you would you reccomend as an alternative?

 

[BigbruiserAl]

So what you would you reccomend as an alternative?

All you need to do is a fishless cycle mate if you have empty tanks, you can speed it up by using mature media that has been donated for you.
Please take alook through the fishless cycle in the resource centre will answer most of your questions

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Once again, incorrect info is being posted in this thread, please read my post here:
http/www.fishforum...__fromsearch__1

Here is a hint:

A common misconception about bacteria in general is that they die if they are not fed. From a human being point of view this sounds perfectly reasonable: if you don’t eat, you die. However, bacteria are not human beings. Bacteria operate much differently than people and have a variety of ways to deal with those times when resources are not available for them to grow and reproduce. Some bacteria when stressed (from say lack of nutrients) form spores and go into a resting stage waiting for conditions to improve. Nitrifiers do not form spores but have other mechanisms to deal with nutrient deficient periods. For nitrifiers, one way to deal with stressful conditions is to forming a protective ‘shield” called EPS. EPS stands for extracellular polymeric substances and is, in simplistic terms, an organic protective shield that research shows inhibits various organisms from attacking and breaking open the cell wall of nitrifiers. Nitrifiers belong to a very old line of bacteria (millions of years) and they have developed ways to cope with very long periods of “drought”. Because the nitrifiers in .......... are grown on a substrate they can form EPS when needed and last 6 to 12 months in a bottle.

 

[anon02]

Whether the bacteria in a bottle products work or not is a moot point, what we know for sure is that the correct nitrifying bacteria can be encouraged to grow using household ammonia or fish waste to name but 2. Patience at this point and in succeding years as a fishkeeper is a virtue. Fail to prepare - prepare to fail

 

[drobbyb]

Once again, incorrect info is being posted in this thread, please read my post here:
http/www.fishforum...__fromsearch__1

Here is a hint:

A common misconception about bacteria in general is that they die if they are not fed. From a human being point of view this sounds perfectly reasonable: if you don’t eat, you die. However, bacteria are not human beings. Bacteria operate much differently than people and have a variety of ways to deal with those times when resources are not available for them to grow and reproduce. Some bacteria when stressed (from say lack of nutrients) form spores and go into a resting stage waiting for conditions to improve. Nitrifiers do not form spores but have other mechanisms to deal with nutrient deficient periods. For nitrifiers, one way to deal with stressful conditions is to forming a protective ‘shield” called EPS. EPS stands for extracellular polymeric substances and is, in simplistic terms, an organic protective shield that research shows inhibits various organisms from attacking and breaking open the cell wall of nitrifiers. Nitrifiers belong to a very old line of bacteria (millions of years) and they have developed ways to cope with very long periods of “drought”. Because the nitrifiers in .......... are grown on a substrate they can form EPS when needed and last 6 to 12 months in a bottle.

Fair enough, but then why do the bacteria not recover from their bottled state?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Why don't any of you folks bother going to any of the links posted and actually reading what is there?

anon02 wrote;

what we know for sure is that the correct nitrifying bacteria can be encouraged to grow using household ammonia or fish waste to name but 2

What exactly are the correct bacteria? How do you know how long they live, how do they reproduce and how long can survive if you remove all the living things from a tank and don't dose anything? To any answers you offer I would say prove it. And to do this you will have to quote Dr. Timothy Hovanec

 

[drobbyb]

anon02 wrote;

what we know for sure is that the correct nitrifying bacteria can be encouraged to grow using household ammonia or fish waste to name but 2

Ohhhh, I see. But if you have ammonia or fish waste the correct bacteria will develop on it's own and it takes about the same amount of time to establish a tank. So, even though these specific bacteria are present in the bottle in a state from which they can recover, there are active nitrifying bacteria everywhere, even in the very water supply you fill your tank from.

I have used these products in the past with zero measurable results over natural cycling (Yeah, I did an experiment where I used the "bottled bacteria" in one tank exactly as the directions stated and performed a normal fishless cycle in another. Both tanks were identical in conditions that I could measure). So using my findings and using the testimony I have heard of countless others, I can say that I honestly believe those products have little to no value. The only type of bottled bacteria product that I came across that worked as advertised was the original refrigerated dated Bio-Spira.


Even though your statements are true, in practice it makes little difference since you are putting bacteria in your tank that exist everywhere in nature already. The only real application I can see for these products is if you live in a near sterile environment with your own sterilized water supply.

 

[anon02]

Why don't any of you folks bother going to any of the links posted and actually reading what is there?

anon02 wrote;

what we know for sure is that the correct nitrifying bacteria can be encouraged to grow using household ammonia or fish waste to name but 2

What exactly are the correct bacteria? How do you know how long they live, how do they reproduce and how long can survive if you remove all the living things from a tank and don't dose anything? To any answers you offer I would say prove it. And to do this you will have to quote Dr. Timothy Hovanec

I did read the links you provided and I have also read Dr H original work. I`m not going to get into a who knows what contest, the point I`m trying to make is given the track record of bottled products available in the UK, I would not recommend any to a newcomer

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am posting in 3 different threads dealing with this topic. Not once have I suggested that anybody buy or use any bottled bacteria products including the two developed by Dr. Hovanec. What I did do was make reference to them in connection with stating that to learn the facts about the bacteria in our tanks that make it possible to keep our fish alive long term, one needs to reference Dr. Hovanec's work. Moreover, to understand why the other products sold in the UK (and elsewhere) do not work, you need to reference Dr. Hovanec's work. Its simple, they contain the wrong bacteria.

I do not like is seeing incorrect statements about the science involved or which categorically state that no bacteria in a bottle can possibly work when that is not true. I would expect if one wishes to refute Dr. Hovanec's work that they at least have similar credentials to do this.

 

[BigbruiserAl]

I do not like is seeing incorrect statements about the science involved or which categorically state that no bacteria in a bottle can possibly work when that is not true. I would expect if one wishes to refute Dr. Hovanec's work that they at least have similar credentials to do this.

Although it might be right your not really helping though, when entering a hobby and asking for advice it needs to simple theres enough to deal with without people getting on their high horse about something that you dont really need to when your new. As said there a massive question mark over bottled bacteria and while its a good healthy debate and interesting it does not belong IMO in the help my tank new/should i waste money.

 

[drobbyb]

I do not like is seeing incorrect statements about the science involved or which categorically state that no bacteria in a bottle can possibly work when that is not true. I would expect if one wishes to refute Dr. Hovanec's work that they at least have similar credentials to do this.

Although it might be right your not really helping though, when entering a hobby and asking for advice it needs to simple theres enough to deal with without people getting on their high horse about something that you dont really need to when your new. As said there a massive question mark over bottled bacteria and while its a good healthy debate and interesting it does not belong IMO in the help my tank new/should i waste money.

I agree. These type of details are best suited to the scientific section.

Regardless who has more perfect science (Hey, I was a biology major in college and I did very well. You don't have to have perfect science or expensive equipment for your results to be valid), perfect vision, or perfect anything else to be able to observe or study. In the end the result is the same. The OP asked a question and it was adequately answered.

If you are hung up on my original post's wording, let me rephrase: It is possible for dormant nitrifying bacteria to survive being in a bottle and sitting on a shelf for months on end. However I have observed my results and the results of countless others and compared them to the claims made on the manufacturers label. My findings indicate that the bacteria in a bottle products CURRENTLY do not work. Please save your money.

 

[waterdrop]

I really don't see a problem here except that TTA has come in out of the blue and gotten in to a big fuss with the way some people have expressed themselves. It's a forum discussion - there are bound to be inaccuracies and misstatements from time to time - that happens in conversation and it is often more persuasive to present what one feels is a more accurate representation in a way that is encouraging and polite to the parties involved.

I think Robby's rephrase is very good. I certainly agree with much of what TTA has written. Tim's papers are a huge source of much of what we use as central information. I've sometimes carried written copies of his papers around in my backpack for months, so that I could read and re-read sections (unfortunately that has not made me much of a microbiologist ) I also feel I've had a few good interactions with Tim from time to time, but he's a busy man and understandably devotes most of his time to his new company and not to forums such as ours. It's quite true that these nitrifiers can survive a long time in dormancy and this fact was part of what attracted the attention of scientists such as Hovanec.

What has felt so disappointing is that somehow there does seem to be some problem with these bacteria (the two that Tim has had a hand in working with) coming out of a stored state and then showing that they've made a difference by speeding up a standard fishless cycle. There is something we're doing wrong. My feeling is the same as Robby's - we just seem to get reports of things not really going any faster. My recollection is that we've had a lot more that have been about biospira than about oneandonly though, I only remember one thread where a member tried to seed with the new oneandonly product. Who knows, maybe some day we'll luck in to a bunch of people trying these and we'll get more feedback.

~~waterdrop~~