Api general cure

[NickAu]

Does anybody know if this is safe to use with nerite snails? I need to kill some planaria and this was a suggested treatment. (Yes Nick, I can use my no planaria but I really want to keep nerite snails in this tank! Lol.)

Assuming it is planaria.You could pull the Tetras out and put them in a bare bottom ten gallon, now I know you may transfer some of these " planaria " but thats not a problem if any appear you can treat the ten gallon with half doses of No Planaria.


Now as the Nerites can tolerate salt ( they need brackish water to reproduce ) you could treat that tank with slightly higher doses of salt.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Assuming it is planaria.You could pull the Tetras out and put them in a bare bottom ten gallon, now I know you may transfer some of these " planaria " but thats not a problem if any appear you can treat the ten gallon with half doses of No Planaria.


Now as the Nerites can tolerate salt ( they need brackish water to reproduce ) you could treat that tank with slightly higher doses of salt.

Problem is I don't have an open ten gallon. The only one where it could be possible is putting them into my baby pleco tank which is ten but it's not bare bottom(this is also a tank that has been treated with No Planaria). I have a thin layer of sand. But I'd be worried it would stress them all out being in that small of a tank. Not to mention the move itself. I think I will leave them for now....do a water change after I feed them this morning and start adding in some salt. If they start to look real stressed I can move them.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Ok, I have a couple more videos I took you may be interested in. The first one is the longest one I've seen though I've never seen them act like it is. The second one is on the piece of mopani driftwood that I have close to the front glass of the tank. I will also include a picture of the entire setup just for reference. It's a 20 gallon high.

Anyway, as for the salt treatment, if my calculations are correct..will 19 level teaspoons work? I plan on starting with 5 today after the water change as soon as I post this. Then 5 tomorrow morning and the day after, then the last 4. Will that work?

Here are the videos and picture!

 

[Byron]

I agree on the salt dose as 19 level teaspoons. You probably have around 15 gallons of water in the 20g, and that equates to about 57 liters, divided by 3 (3 liters per teaspoon), is 19. I would add it in one day, but gradually over a few hours (this was Neale Monks' advice to me). And yes, after a good water change.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Awesome! Thanks Byron! I did the first 5 teaspoons a couple hours ago after a 50% water change. I'll do another 5 now and wait a bit and so on until I get to 19. I just hope this works. If it doesn't I guess i'll have to use the No Planaria stuff but I don't want to if I can avoid it.

One question, can mts handle this amount of salt? I think I will get some of them before I so more plants if you think it would be ok. Maybe they can help with some of the decaying matter. I stirred up a ton of stuff when I poured the clean water in. And I ran the vacuum just over the top of the sand. Maybe I was going to fast....though I was also trying to focus on the cyanobacteria as well.

 

[Byron]

Awesome! Thanks Byron! I did the first 5 teaspoons a couple hours ago after a 50% water change. I'll do another 5 now and wait a bit and so on until I get to 19. I just hope this works. If it doesn't I guess i'll have to use the No Planaria stuff but I don't want to if I can avoid it.

One question, can mts handle this amount of salt? I think I will get some of them before I so more plants if you think it would be ok. Maybe they can help with some of the decaying matter. I stirred up a ton of stuff when I poured the clean water in. And I ran the vacuum just over the top of the sand. Maybe I was going to fast....though I was also trying to focus on the cyanobacteria as well.

My Malaysian Livebearing Snails were fine. I'm not sure it is possible to kill these fellows...they can survive drying out, and even freezing.

Everything you're saying is confirming my suspicion that organics is at the root of your problems. Give the substrate a good clean during water changes, in all open areas (I never move wood or rock, or under plants). What about the filoter, how often is it cleaned, and is it full of crud (brown gunk)? And what is the volum of the normal weekly water change?

 

[Ch4rlie]

That first vid, does not really look like planerian to me tbh. It is much thinner and longer than what I have seen personally and online. There probably are different varients of planeria perhaps. That may explain why my recommended treatment did not work for you.

As for the copepods, hard to tell tbh. Does look a bit like them but am surprised the tetras are not eating them if thats the case....

Byron's advice re salt sounds a good one and with assistance with Neale Monks (who really does know his stuff and has written many articles) will help out a lot hopefully.

As for the MTS, well, even if they do pass away due to the salts, they are so readily available, even free if ask nicely at LFS so they can be replaced easily. Of course once the salt treatment has been completed successfully and water changes carried out etc.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

My Malaysian Livebearing Snails were fine. I'm not sure it is possible to kill these fellows...they can survive drying out, and even freezing.

Everything you're saying is confirming my suspicion that organics is at the root of your problems. Give the substrate a good clean during water changes, in all open areas (I never move wood or rock, or under plants). What about the filoter, how often is it cleaned, and is it full of crud (brown gunk)? And what is the volum of the normal weekly water change?

Thanks Byron. I think these snails will do me good.

Since I set the tank up, I will admit to being very bad at water changes. Though with a regular led light plus my bristlenose that I had before she passed...I never had to worry about algae. She kept the tank spotless. It wasnt until after she got sick and passed and I started messing around with live plants and getting a stronger led light that the algae became a problem. Then on an order of the water lettuce is where I believe I got these "pests".

Anyway, I'm now doing 50% once a week. I think this is the third or fourth time. I'm mostly focusing on getting the cyanobacteria out but its hard to suck up. I need to let the vacuum hover more I think. I want to start doing things better so when I get my 55 set up I wont have these problems.

As for the filter, it is a canister. It was filled with a bunch of gunk before I started to do the weekly water changes. I rinsed everything out really well on the first one, I didn't do anything the last time, and this time I rinsed out the polyfil and the other sponges I have. There was a little bit floating in the eater inside the filter but not nearly what it was the first time. I will be keeping an eye on it and completely clean it every now and then for sure. (I do have fluval prefilter stuff in the bottom and then I have the fluval biomax in the top basket covered by the polyfil. The rest are sponges, course, medium, and fine.)

That first vid, does not really look like planerian to me tbh. It is much thinner and longer than what I have seen personally and online. There probably are different varients of planeria perhaps. That may explain why my recommended treatment did not work for you.

As for the copepods, hard to tell tbh. Does look a bit like them but am surprised the tetras are not eating them if thats the case....

Byron's advice re salt sounds a good one and with assistance with Neale Monks (who really does know his stuff and has written many articles) will help out a lot hopefully.

As for the MTS, well, even if they do pass away due to the salts, they are so readily available, even free if ask nicely at LFS so they can be replaced easily. Of course once the salt treatment has been completed successfully and water changes carried out etc.

The first video may be a detritus worm...it just didn't act right. But the other one showed what I think are the planaria, or whatever these nasty things are. I do know they are dangerous as I've had two fish deaths in other tanks and unhappy nerite snails as well.

Anyway, the salt is all in. Everybody seems to be doing well at the moment. I just hope this works!

Hopefully any mts I get will survive just fine then! Thanks for the info!

 

[Ch4rlie]

I'm mostly focusing on getting the cyanobacteria out but its hard to suck up. I need to let the vacuum hover more I think.

I actually find using a toothbrush the easiest way to get rid of cyano. No joke. Scraping the cyano off the glass and using the bristles to take gently take it off the substrate seems to work pretty well. I used this method when had a small cyano issue on one o fmy tanks (indirect sunlight was the main cause I think) andafter doing this over a couple weeks when did the water changes / maintenances and taping the bottom of the tank to cover most of the substrate at that corner worked for me.

Give it a go

(of course use a unused new cheap toothbrush just for that tank, I also find using the toothbrush does real well for taking algae off the front glass and the corners of tank works wonders)

 

[Byron]

I am inclined to think the high organics as you've described (the filter state initially, less water changes, etc) were the start of most of these issues. Cyano is definitely caused by organics, in the presence of light. I know from my 2-year quest trying to pin down organics that they can be problematical; a dirty filter is a prime cause. There are some who will advocate allowing the filter to go longer, to encourage denitrification, and that is a valid point. But denitrification occurs in the substrate, and keeping the filter literally spotless will ensure better water quality, good flow, and fewer organics/nitrates. I once had cyano that occurred solely from my failure to clean the filter, I left it for several months (deliberately). I now clean the canisters monthly; spong filters are rinsed every water change. This has certainly reduced my organics.

Dig into the substrate, again in the open areas, and get out all you can. And 50-60% water changes will help. I've even done 75% once weekly.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I actually find using a toothbrush the easiest way to get rid of cyano. No joke. Scraping the cyano off the glass and using the bristles to take gently take it off the substrate seems to work pretty well. I used this method when had a small cyano issue on one o fmy tanks (indirect sunlight was the main cause I think) andafter doing this over a couple weeks when did the water changes / maintenances and taping the bottom of the tank to cover most of the substrate at that corner worked for me.

Give it a go

(of course use a unused new cheap toothbrush just for that tank, I also find using the toothbrush does real well for taking algae off the front glass and the corners of tank works wonders)

Hm...I will add that to my shopping list!! Thanks Ch4lie!!

I am inclined to think the high organics as you've described (the filter state initially, less water changes, etc) were the start of most of these issues. Cyano is definitely caused by organics, in the presence of light. I know from my 2-year quest trying to pin down organics that they can be problematical; a dirty filter is a prime cause. There are some who will advocate allowing the filter to go longer, to encourage denitrification, and that is a valid point. But denitrification occurs in the substrate, and keeping the filter literally spotless will ensure better water quality, good flow, and fewer organics/nitrates. I once had cyano that occurred solely from my failure to clean the filter, I left it for several months (deliberately). I now clean the canisters monthly; spong filters are rinsed every water change. This has certainly reduced my organics.

Dig into the substrate, again in the open areas, and get out all you can. And 50-60% water changes will help. I've even done 75% once weekly.

Thanks Byron! I will be better with my maintenance of this tank. I bet if I keep up with it that it won't be so frustrating! Lol. And with Ch4lie's toothbrush trick...I think it will go much better!!

I do agree with you on what's more than likely caused it. Though, one added thing is the stronger led light I think has played a roll too. But for the most part not caring for it as well as I should be for sure. I think next water change I will dig around in the sand and stir stuff up before I take out any water. The tetras will hate me for that...but they'll get over it. Lol. Thanks again!

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Well...yesterday I still saw some of these things crawling on the wood. Today though? I didn't see any. Well, I did see one little small thing going really fast across the glass. Not sure what that was. Even the copepods seems to have lessened too. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is working though. Might be a bit too soon to tell.

Now, I know I need to stir the sand up on my next water change...I bought some mts from eBay, will I still need to stir the sand once they are in there? I don't think it would hurt them but just thought I would ask!

Also...I have one black neon tetra that is really thin. Has been for some time. Seems to be swimming good and eating for the most part(saw it staying in a corner but it would get the food that came to it). Then I have another one that I just noticed...I think it's because that drilling holes in the spray bar has made the food stay to the front of the tank so I can actually look down on them. One seems to have a bulge on one side but is swimming and eating normally. I tried to get a closer look but wasn't sure if it was the same fish but either it or a different one seemed to have a bit of a reddish belly. Would any of this be a sign on internal parasites? With the other pests I was just wondering if something maybe came in that I couldn't see. Unfortunately I haven't seen any of them poop. They dont like me near the tank so I can't say what it looks like.

 

[Byron]

Now, I know I need to stir the sand up on my next water change...I bought some mts from eBay, will I still need to stir the sand once they are in there? I don't think it would hurt them but just thought I would ask!

I would try to do a thorough cleaning at first, given the likely organics issue here. Sand is easy to suck up with water changer devices, so you might try stirring the sand in one spot while holding the suction just above (if using a Python-type), or stir and then suck out the dirtiest water. Obviously you have to suck out what you stir up or it will only re-settle.

Down the road, this should not be necessary. I sometimes hold the changer just over the sand, but some organics are important for CO2. It is the initial cleaning you need to get out of the way, then things should be fine if you don't overfeed. Remember that every bit of food entering the tank will become organics at the other end, so less going in means less coming out.

I don't think anything short of squashing the MLS can kill them. Boiling would I guess, but they have been know to survive being frozen solid on a back porch in a pail of gravel.

On the black neon issue, I can't say. I'm not much on disease, as I have experience with only a few things, and diagnosing is not at all easy.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks Byron! I'll keep this updated whenever I get new information.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Just an update. Unfortunately the salt hasn't really helped. I still see little creepies in the tank. It may have slowed down their life a bit but I really don't want to take a chance. So, today after a major water change when I wreak havoc on the sand to get organics out of it...I am going to treat with the No Planaria. My nerite snails are already safely out of the tank and the mts I had ordered are in a quarantine heated tub until I feel it will be safe to try to reintroduce them. (In 3 to 4 weeks probably after treatment.)

Hopefully....this will be the end of it....and next time any and all plants will at the least have a few hours in an alum bath, at the most...that plus maybe a quarantine tank. It depends on how I can set stuff up. I definitely don't want parasites again. Heck...if I get a quarantine tank I can at least use the No Planaria in there and then rinse plants well after treatment. That might be the way to go actually...now just to see when and how I can set it up.....lol.

I want to thank everybody that has helped me and given me suggestions. This has been a rough road this time around with these things that was getting me pretty discouraged. Lost a couple of beautiful fish to these monsters.