Any Suggestions? My First Tank :D

[IHaveANewHobby:)]

Hello everyone!

Let me say first that I have read these forums for about 2 weeks now and you all are totally helpful, so I thought hey I will join and tap you all's brain a bit!

Here is my set-up:
25 Gallon Tank
Whisper Filter
Air Stones on back wall
4 Fake Plants, multiple rock stuctures.(fake)
2 Zebra Danios.

Length of tank ownership 8 weeks.

Well first off you all are probably wondering why I only have 2 Zebra Danios thats the problem...
I just read the post on fishless cycleing...man if I only read that 6 weeks ago.
I went to my LFS where they told me to buy some Danios to "start the cycle" of my tank. I bought 8 Zebra danios. I lost a rate of 1 fish per day until only 2 remained.
As you can imagine this is not all the LFS's fault. *Shame on me*, but I have come to find that I LOVE keeping up this fish tank!


Now.. I need help, I have visted a LFS many times looking at the tanks, the fish and such, I got my water tested there, and they asked if I have used AMMO LOCK. I said well yes.... )

They said to remove some water (about 2 quarts) and add de-chlorinated water to it.

Done.

They said I could come ack afterwards and buy some fish.

Well I went back and most of the community tanks looked well, in shock or dead fish were in them. I did not buy any fish at all.

I guess my question is,
1. what can I do to make sure my tank is ready now that I have used AMMO LOCK?
2. Should I not buy fish here? Thye told me they had a bad shipment and they were doing everythiing they could to get the fish back to health (normally their fish look awsome)
3. How many fish do you think I should get?
4. Do any of you know of some very good FS in St. Louis?

Oh and one last thing. One of my danios seems more aggessive than the other, constantly chases the other and lashes out at him. Is this a problem? or is it because there is only 2 of them?

whew thank guys! Hope you all can help!!

-Did i mention I love my fish!?!

 

[Alien Anna]

Well you haven't done too badly, for a newbie with an absolutely useless LFS! Sorry about your danios.

This is what I'd do in your situation:
1. Get that ammo-lock out of your water by daily, partial water changes of 10-15%. Some carbon in your filter could also help (don't leave carbon in there full-time, just to remove chemicals from your water).

2. Get some test-kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH (much cheaper online - other American forum members can give you recommendations of good sites). Once you are doing it yourself you'll find it much easier to negotiate your way around tank chemistry. Remember that your ammonia readings could be inaccurate until you're clear of the Ammo-lock - the main thing is to test daily so that if the Ammo-lock suddenly gets over-shot by the ammonia load, you're on the case and can do an immediate water change.

3. Add a couple of fish at a time until you have the full complement (this is the "cycling with fish" technique). Save the more delicate fish until last (corrys, tetras etc. ).

4. Find a better source for your fish - it's worth the travelling to support a good, independent LFS who actually care about fish. Otherwise, you are kind of saying it's OK for the other LFS to treat their fish with contempt and flog customers useless products. Again, it is possible to buy fish online and some sites are excellent - I know it sounds scary, but at least then you'd get the best fish.

Apart from everything else, it wastes so much money to buy fish in such poor condition they die on you - those danios you had might have been used to cycle a half dozen tanks before they got to yours (I know this is an appalling thought, but it happens).

5. While you're online getting your testing kits and fish, why not get some live plants? Assuming you have a light live plants make a huge difference to water quality - a bit of Java fern on a lump of bogwood would be a great way to start.

 

[IHaveANewHobby:)]

Great news! Thanks so much!
I have ehard some bad things about online fish dealers. That you useually get them in a "shocked" state
I hope this isnt true.

The LFS did give me some carbon to add into the filer bag. It has been in for 3 days now.

When I do a 10-15% water change, do i need to adjust the water's PH? We have about 8.4 tap PH here. Also I was told by a LFS that if i do water changes daily it will force my tank to cycle again. Is this true?

Thanks again for all of your help!!

 

[Alien Anna]

When I do a 10-15% water change, do i need to adjust the water's PH? We have about 8.4 tap PH here. Also I was told by a LFS that if i do water changes daily it will force my tank to cycle again. Is this true?

Hi,
there are some online dealers with excellent reputations - I don't know who I'd recommend for your region, but I'm sure others on the forum can do so.

Carbon in your filter will only work for a few days and then it stops working. It won't actually do any harm at this stage, however.

As for pH, leave well alone. More fish have been killed by newbies using pH altering products than by inappropriate pH's. We have pH 8.5 - 9 out of our taps and yet I know people who breed angelfish, cories and tetras in it. If the fish are acclimatised to your water they'll be fine. If you leave your tap water to stand for a day you may well find the pH comes down anyway - I know mine does. Besides, some plants and bogwood would help reduce the pH gradually if you're worried.

The LFS have definitely confirmed themselves as idiots if they discourage daily water changes in an un-cycled tank! That's a really good way to kill fish

No, the beneficial bacteria largely live in your filter and gravel, not in the water. You could theoretically do a 100% water change without seeing a nitrite or ammonia spike, its just that the fish might get shocked by the sudden change of pH etc.

 

[IHaveANewHobby:)]

First let me thank you very much for all of your help, you dont even begin to know how much you are helping me!

So, I was told to not touch the water for the first 6-8 weeks, meaning I have not changed any water, or cleaned any gravel... Im worried about that now. I have quite a bit of alge on the top of most ornaments as well as a section of gravel. My fish are swimming very nicely, they "seem" heathly and happy.

So, should i just remove 10% of the water and add new or should I remove 10% and clean the gravel with a siphon as well? I dont want to disturb the cycle here, and my two very good sports have been through enough stress I am afraid.

again THANK YOU ANNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Alien Anna]

So, I was told to not touch the water for the first 6-8 weeks, meaning I have not changed any water, or cleaned any gravel... Im worried about that now. I have quite a bit of alge on the top of most ornaments as well as a section of gravel. My fish are swimming very nicely, they "seem" heathly and happy.

So, should i just remove 10% of the water and add new or should I remove 10% and clean the gravel with a siphon as well? I dont want to disturb the cycle here, and my two very good sports have been through enough stress I am afraid.

again THANK YOU ANNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi,
the advice you received is quite frankly horrifying - no water changes for 6 weeks ??? I wouldn't even do that on my matured tanks - my fish would be dead in a month for certain. It's not just for nitrite and ammonia you need to do water changes, there's also a built-up of nitrates, phosphates and fish hormones, all of which can do your fish harm.

When cycling a tank you need to keep the gravel clean of rotten food and fish poop etc. but just don't be too enthusiastic to keep it pristine. If your gravel hasn't been cleaned in 6 weeks that isn't really the issue. I superficially "clean" my gravel every time I do a water change because I've got a similar siphon thingy to yourself. I suggest you move your rocks and bogwood so that you can clean under them - you don't want any "dead spots" developing in your gravel.

I suggest you do a 25-50% water change today and a daily 10-15% water change thereafter. You definitely need to get that water swapped out for some clean water. You fish won't regard a decent water change as a stress - in fact, it may well perk them up. My fish seem to love water changes (OTOH it might be because they know food is coming next). With some fish it encourages them to spawn.

Also while you're at it you can clean off some of that algae - a little scourer type algae removal pad is as good as anything. Takes a bit of elbow grease, however.

 

[IHaveANewHobby:)]

Thank you Anna
I did a 40ish % water change today. I cleaned off most of the ornaments(let a little alge for heatlhy bacteria) and siphoned most areas of the gravel.

Afterwards you would not belive the difference. My fish were swimming around like crazy!!! Just like how my dogs go nutzo after a bath hehe. It seems good.
Should I keep doing a 10-15% change everyday untill I have completely replaced the water?
BTW I washed off the old ornaments in the old fish water, as well as just "dunked" my filter bag. I did do ALOT of gravel moving so hopefully no dead spots.
I dechlorinated the water and adjusted the PH. Tested again about 3 hours later and happy to report, happy fish, great readings + a much better looking tank! Thanks again

 

[Alien Anna]

Everything sounds good except the bit about adjusting the pH - that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. pH adjusters kill more fish than any chemical I know and what's more, they contain vast amounts of phosphates which cause algae.

I would strongly advise you to get that pH adjuster out of your water and allow the fish to become acclimatised to the natural pH of your local water. If you want to lower it a little, put some well-soaked bogwood in the tank. I keep cardinals in pH 7.5 without problems (they come from natural waters at pH 5).

 

[IHaveANewHobby:)]

My Ph is arounf 8.2 here...you think bogowood will help that? Thanks in advance

 

[AquaNut]

Hi IHaveANewHobby

Bogwood releases tannic acid into the water, bringing down your pH. You could also add some peat to your filter in a small bag (or nylon stocking). I agree with Anna with regards to not messing around with all those chemicals that are supposed to adjust your pH. If your water isn't well buffered, the pH adjustments you make won't keep, and you'll end up with wildly fluctuating pH levels. The peat or bogwood are a much more natural route for lowering it.

 

[IHaveANewHobby:)]

Thank you for the bogwood idea. I think I will try it. Do I have to do anything special to the tank or wood to do this? I am worried about what my LFS has told me in the past now, I hope I havent made any huge mistakes....I have tried 3 different products over the past 9 weeks...(not all at once of course)

Ph Down
Bullseye 7.0
Wardly's Bio Phosphate ?spelling?name? ( btw this is what i used whenMy Webpage

I hope my LFS isnt stearing me into a downward spiral here ) So I guess once the bogwood is n then never adjust ph? Should I even bother testing for it then? Thanks again all! You guys are awsome !

 

[IHaveANewHobby:)]

Sorry "my webpage" was supposed to say My emergency post last night. Sorry I did it wrong