Any specific guppies i can put with my Betta?

[Angeltold]

Hi there. Sorry I’ve been away tending to my tanks for 2-3 weeks straight through a bacteria bloom as my tanks cycle, I’ve lost sleep, some work hours and community service hours, but all my fish are currently healthy.
So i have a black Betta with a couple adfs and some shrimp in a 20 gallon tank, and i thought it might be cool to have guppies for my frog to have live food to eat. I had blood worms and i think it might of killed one of my frogs.. cuz he loved eating them off the top! I also have 5 corys in a quarantine tank (one looks like she’s about to lay eggs so i don’t want to mess with them) , when they were together my Betta didn’t ever snip at the fish. He likes to check out the other fish but he’s not aggressive by nature. Both my bettas have never had any problems being aggressive. Except when i had one in the quarantine tank with the corys, he got snippy after 3 or 4 days so he’s in a tank with a Shrimp he can chase around.
So that’s being said, i don’t believe my black betta in the 20 gallon to be aggressive towards other fish. He’s a very social fish and loves for me to feed him.
If i find feeder guppies, will they blend into the tank enough that my Betta won’t feel the need to be aggressive towards the guppies?
I truly believe bettas to not be very aggressive if they’re trained To be gentle.

Opinions? Experiences?
Thank you so much!

 

[Byron]

This is fraught with problems, and cruelty to the fish. Several things to note.

What species of frogs? If you mean the aquatic frogs like the African dwarf, they are not usually very good at catching prey, and the guppies will be too fast for them. The betta will likely go after the guppies though, this is almost always what happens, some say it is the bright colours of the guppies. Not a good idea.

If you intend buying feeder guppies on and off, this is adding the risk of introducing disease. If you want live food, raise it yourself, but make sure it is food the frogs can handle. Small worms like blackworms would be better, though the betta will probably be brtter sat getting these than the frogs.

 

[Angeltold]

I was going to get 5 black striped neon tetras and a male platty from my sister and call my tank complete, maybe ill do that instead. I bread guppies before and became over run. I eventually separated the genders and sold them.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[emeraldking]

If i find feeder guppies, will they blend into the tank enough that my Betta won’t feel the need to be aggressive towards the guppies?

Feeder guppies are mostly wildtype guppies (with short fins) but actually every kind of guppy (so, also large finned ones) can be used as feeder guppies. The short finned wildtypes are preferable to use. Less color hardly attracts the attention of betta. They would be fast swimmers for the frog but that's okay. For it's good to have prey are hard to get, which keeps the frog in a good condition when chasing those guppies. In the wild, they also have to put effort in getting their prey.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I truly believe bettas to not be very aggressive if they’re trained To be gentle.

This is wrong, and a folly. You're setting yourself up for disaster with this tank I'm afraid.

Look up some videos of how betta fish live in the wild. They live solitary lives, guarding their territory. They don't live together or school around with other fish and want company - if another fish comes into their territory, all they want to do is drive it away out of their patch. Even a passing female betta, the male will allow her to be there to mate and lay the eggs, but once that's over he will drive her out of his territory, and betta breeders hastily remove the female after mating because we're putting these fish in unnatural glass boxes, and the targeted fish cannot escape and can even be killed.

Not every betta turns aggressive and murders the entire stock. They might seem fine for a long time, then turn. It happens, where a betta had seemed fine with the other fish in the tank for months or more, then one morning the owner finds the betta has killed the other fish. Just do a forum search for "betta killed fish" and see all the threads from people it's happened to who thought the fish were fine together.

Bettas aren't good to keep with aquatic frogs, isn't good for either species. Bettas shouldn't be kept with other fish, and especially not guppies, and the aquatic frogs are slow, half blind, and will easily miss out on food since the betta, guppies and tetra are faster and will snap it up. Aquatic frogs can grab at and hold/damage long dangling tails like guppies and betta's tails. Our very own @Essjay experienced that.

You're at super high risk for illnesses and parasites in guppies especially, all of the fish will be stressed by sharing a tank together, and eventually you'll almost certainly lose fish or have to rescue and separate them once things go wrong. Putting a betta with other fish is always a gamble.

We can train a betta to jump through a hoop to get food. That's just classical conditioning, like training a dog to do a trick. But you cannot change the nature of a betta and undo millions of years of evolution, and I think it's cruel to try, honestly. Compare it to captured lions and tigers performing in circuses, dophins in seaworld, chimps dressed up as babies and raised like human children... Humans are good at training animals to do things, but you're not changing the fundamental instincts and nature of the animals. Could you describe the tigers/chimps/lions as truly changed fundamentally, and more importantly, enjoying their lives? Just because we can force an animal to do tricks, to adapt to circumstances completely different from what they've evolved to live in, doesn't mean we always should.

I truly believe bettas to not be very aggressive if they’re trained To be gentle.


Opinions? Experiences?
Thank you so much!

The animals in the above circumstances couldn't be described as happy. Stressed and abused animals aren't going to thrive, and we need to consider that the fish we get have absolutely no choice in what set up we put them in, and cannot communicate with us. So the humane thing to do is to provide the kind of environment that the animal has evolved to live in. Zoos learned that lesson and moved on from bare concrete and iron bar cell cages, and began making enclosures that try to emulate the animal's natural environment, along with environmental enrichment, and the animals display far fewer signs of stress or zoo insanity.

If you've just been battling a bacterial bloom too (BB), is that because it's a fairly new set up? If the tank is just starting to stabilise after the BB, then adding more fish and increasing the bioload wouldn't be a great idea. Give it some time to settle before making big changes or adding more fish.

Sorry this is so long. Personally, I'd get a 5-10 gallon for the betta to have all to himself, and either have the frogs alone in the 20g, or turn it into a (planned out) community tank and use long tweezers to target feed the frogs and make absolutely sure they're getting enough of their own foods that way. Good luck!

 

[Angeltold]

This is wrong, and a folly. You're setting yourself up for disaster with this tank I'm afraid.

Look up some videos of how betta fish live in the wild. They live solitary lives, guarding their territory. They don't live together or school around with other fish and want company - if another fish comes into their territory, all they want to do is drive it away out of their patch. Even a passing female betta, the male will allow her to be there to mate and lay the eggs, but once that's over he will drive her out of his territory, and betta breeders hastily remove the female after mating because we're putting these fish in unnatural glass boxes, and the targeted fish cannot escape and can even be killed.

Not every betta turns aggressive and murders the entire stock. They might seem fine for a long time, then turn. It happens, where a betta had seemed fine with the other fish in the tank for months or more, then one morning the owner finds the betta has killed the other fish. Just do a forum search for "betta killed fish" and see all the threads from people it's happened to who thought the fish were fine together.

Bettas aren't good to keep with aquatic frogs, isn't good for either species. Bettas shouldn't be kept with other fish, and especially not guppies, and the aquatic frogs are slow, half blind, and will easily miss out on food since the betta, guppies and tetra are faster and will snap it up. Aquatic frogs can grab at and hold/damage long dangling tails like guppies and betta's tails. Our very own @Essjay experienced that.

You're at super high risk for illnesses and parasites in guppies especially, all of the fish will be stressed by sharing a tank together, and eventually you'll almost certainly lose fish or have to rescue and separate them once things go wrong. Putting a betta with other fish is always a gamble.

We can train a betta to jump through a hoop to get food. That's just classical conditioning, like training a dog to do a trick. But you cannot change the nature of a betta and undo millions of years of evolution, and I think it's cruel to try, honestly. Compare it to captured lions and tigers performing in circuses, dophins in seaworld, chimps dressed up as babies and raised like human children... Humans are good at training animals to do things, but you're not changing the fundamental instincts and nature of the animals. Could you describe the tigers/chimps/lions as truly changed fundamentally, and more importantly, enjoying their lives? Just because we can force an animal to do tricks, to adapt to circumstances completely different from what they've evolved to live in, doesn't mean we always should.




The animals in the above circumstances couldn't be described as happy. Stressed and abused animals aren't going to thrive, and we need to consider that the fish we get have absolutely no choice in what set up we put them in, and cannot communicate with us. So the humane thing to do is to provide the kind of environment that the animal has evolved to live in. Zoos learned that lesson and moved on from bare concrete and iron bar cell cages, and began making enclosures that try to emulate the animal's natural environment, along with environmental enrichment, and the animals display far fewer signs of stress or zoo insanity.

If you've just been battling a bacterial bloom too (BB), is that because it's a fairly new set up? If the tank is just starting to stabilise after the BB, then adding more fish and increasing the bioload wouldn't be a great idea. Give it some time to settle before making big changes or adding more fish.

Sorry this is so long. Personally, I'd get a 5-10 gallon for the betta to have all to himself, and either have the frogs alone in the 20g, or turn it into a (planned out) community tank and use long tweezers to target feed the frogs and make absolutely sure they're getting enough of their own foods that way. Good luck!

I have the nicest bettas. Once i had 8 tiny shrimp with my betta, and i thought he ate one and i felt so bad coz i was upset and he didnt. And he was scared too!! He thought he ate his friend! My other betta is gentle too. My betta and i hang out all day, they are extremely gentle. They like chasing the shrimp around but they know they're friends not food.
Im going to go against getting guppies, then. I thought a feeder one would be cool though, but i never could find one.
As for my tanks, theyre complete now, all except a platty that my sister is raising. I asked for a single male. (And i wanna get a blue shrimp later)
So in my 20 gallon i have a black betta (he just swims and asks for food all day) 2 adfs and 2 more quarentining right now. The way i be sure the frogs get food is, i watch them eat. My two new afds had little tummys by night (it was all digested by morning), and one tetra looked like he was about to pop! (He wouldnt stop catching all the food) I also have 5 corys. and i just got the 6 new black striped tetras (3 are neon black) that i put in the quarentine tank, and 3 ghost shrimp , I make sure the frogs immediately know the difference between their food and any substrate. They look at me until eventually a piece of food falls close enough for them to catch it. Once i know they’ve had a few pieces, i wait at least 12 hours and try again.
I try and clean my tanks often and i check for ammonia spikes every other day. I try not to over feed my fish, but i want my adfs to know what food is when they get home. The two in my 20g will sit at the top of trees and wait for food if they get really hungry, so then i try to add a couple extra pellets for them (usually in the same spot)
I have a 2.5 gallon, for now (its for my rescue betta) i need to get him a 10 gallon! Hes a biggg red betta! He and i have been through a lot together. Hes my oldest fish. I have a tiny shrimp and 2 assassin snails in that tank with him. The assassin was an impulse buy and they hide. Im going to be adding the “ghost” shrimps to that one and i want to add a blue ghosty. But ill be moving them into a 10 gallon. (No the assissins didnt hurt the tiny shrimp either, they didnt even try. They usually eat blood worms)
Thus my tanks are complete no guppies.
My black betta though, he does like to chase the fish around though. You can tell if they are going to be aggressive or not simply by if their mouth is open or not. If their mouth is closed, they're just playing. Observe your betta, After a few days, their behavior changed if their mouth is open, thats how you know they need more space. I have yet to seen an aggressive betta. I believe theyre peaceful by nature, just if they arent getting the attention they need, or enough space when they become over whelmed, then they could accidentally hurt themselves or another fish. Bettas are very intelligent fish, and can become your best friends. Unlike coridoras who are more interested in the water perameters, to be able to develop that type of pet/owner bond. You love them, but let’s be honest, coris are terrified of humans.

 

[Angeltold]

Feeder guppies are mostly wildtype guppies (with shorty fins) but actually can every kind of guppy (so, also large finned ones) be used as feeder guppies. The short finned wildtypes are preferable to use. Less color hardly attracts the attention of betta. They would be fast swimmers for the frog but that's okay. For it's good to have prey are hard to get, which keeps the frog in a good condition when chasing those guppies. In the wild, they also have to put effort in getting their prey.

Hi! Thank you for your response! I have two betta tanks, and though one is full now, id still love to add a feeder guppy to a ten gallon tank when i can finally upgrade my 2.5 gallon betta! Hes getting too big. Though hes happy he needs more room. So I’m excited to get one feeder now ^~^ thank you for helping me complete my tanks!!

 

[GaryE]

I'll second the impending disaster note. Feeder guppies may be the most dangerous disease carrier in the North American hobby. They are seen as cheap and expendable, and treated as such. You had better have a good 6 week quarantine in place.
Yes, if you want to annoy a Betta, put a short finned guppy in his tank. Large tailed guppies resemble males challenging for territory in the eyes of your average half blind Betta, and challengers are to be killed.

There are milder Bettas, and I have often kept these fish in communities. I would never put livebearers, because they often nibble Betta fins. Btw, the mouth opens as they prepare to bite. It is closed for speed. They do not make friends with other fish, and they ate young or moulting shrimp here. There was a cruel fad a few years ago where people put ping pong balls in Betta tanks so they could 'play'. The poor betta tried to get the dangerous objects out of the way because they couldn't see if predators were above them (birds are a serious enemy for them, and instinct lasts). And insensitive people would enjoy them 'playing' as they struggled. Your shrimp are running for their lives, and your Betta is slowed by his unnatural fins so he can't catch them.

 

[ChasingFish]

Just to play devil's advocate a bit, &no offense meant to those who offered you valuable and lengthy advice, but I have personally kept a betta with guppies many times with no issue - even fancy guppies with fan tails. But I have many tanks, and if I ever saw any aggression, I would have no issue with moving them. I've kept bettas in many community tank set-ups with a variety of different fish and my biggest take away is that they seem to prefer shallow tanks and no big fish (such as angels or discus - even if they aren't aggressive toward the betta, the bettas tend to hide which is no good). Also having a heavily planted tank for lots of hiding spaces is always a good idea. But I know that my opinion is in the minority, so take it as you will.

 

[emeraldking]

Just to play devil's advocate a bit, &no offense meant to those who offered you valuable and lengthy advice, but I have personally kept a betta with guppies many times with no issue - even fancy guppies with fan tails. But I have many tanks, and if I ever saw any aggression, I would have no issue with moving them. I've kept bettas in many community tank set-ups with a variety of different fish and my biggest take away is that they seem to prefer shallow tanks and no big fish (such as angels or discus - even if they aren't aggressive toward the betta, the bettas tend to hide which is no good). Also having a heavily planted tank for lots of hiding spaces is always a good idea. But I know that my opinion is in the minority, so take it as you will.

Well, I do believe you. There are bettas that are friendly as well. That goes for most fish species that are known to be aggressive at a certain stage. There will always be specimens amongst them that don't reflect the aggressive nature they are known for. But that's also one of the beauties of fish keeping that not all have the same experience with fish.

 

[Back in the fold]

The only fish I have ever seen that was trained was an Oscar that ate from its masters hand.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

The only fish I have ever seen that was trained was an Oscar that ate from its masters hand.

My mollies would eat from my hand! Even swim right into my palm at times. Miss those fish, gonna have to get mollies again... it's only not wanting to be swamped with livebearer fry holding me back.

 

[Back in the fold]

My mollies would eat from my hand! Even swim right into my palm at times. Miss those fish, gonna have to get mollies again... it's only not wanting to be swamped with livebearer fry holding me back.

I hear this all the time. People getting overrun with guppies , platy’s , mollies and swordtails. Never has happened to me. I usually raise a dozen or so to full grown at any given time.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I hear this all the time. People getting overrun with guppies , platy’s , mollies and swordtails. Never has happened to me. I usually raise a dozen or so to full grown at any given time.

To be fair, when we only had a trio of large, long-lived mollies in a community tank, they didn't over-produce masses of fry. Only enough made it to a good sellable size to make it worth bagging a batch up to take to the store every six months or so. It's when he added platies and then I kept guppies too that the numbers got ridiculous.