Anti-Artificial?

[Deleted member 149562]

I am not having a rant or anything like that, so no-one needs to get their proverbials into a knot

But....

Why is there so much anti-artificial...erm...for want of a better descriptive phrase...."snobbery" in fishkeeping generally (not just amongst people here but everywhere) about the use of artificial aquascape items and plants?

Using artificial items within an aquarium does not mean that a fishkeeper is somehow inferior or wrong or cruel, so why do people often get all huffy and puffy and make people feel bad or feel like they are doomed to fail as fishkeepers just cos they use artificial and not the "real mccoy" in their aquariums?

There are a multitude of reasons why people do not go down the real plant route....everything from a lack of green thumbs to younger people keeping fish on a tight budget and not able to afford to get all the exotic plants, CO2 etc

It is high time that those of us who use artificial were treated equally to those using real everything. Artificial aquatic items have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years, they are lifelike, they don't always have neon dayglo colours like 30 years ago....and most importantly the fish are not harmed by them, which is or should be the goal of EVERY fishkeeper

We aren't second class fishkeepers by virtue of our preferences or options or lack of options in regard to artificial aquascaping and planting....talking down to people and making them feel uncomfortable or useless just cos they don't have the ability or the financial means or are youngsters starting out when they have artificial everything is seriously not a nice thing to do and can put people right off venturing into this wonderful pastime and keep them off sites like these.

If the fish are healthy and aquarium maintenance is done properly...why is there such a gulf tween those who use real everything to those who don't?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Artificial plants can be real nice, especially the silk plants, not cheap but can be well worth it.

Have seen some really stunning tanks on this forum in the past that are completely fake plants and have absolutely no objections whatsoever in using fake plants at all whatsoever.

I have used fake plants myself in the past until I started learning more about live plants and started growing those instead, it was not for any particular real reasons for the switch to be honest.

Have never considered keeper who have fake plants as second class keepers at all, the thought has never even crossed my mind.

Am surprised some folks look down on those who have fake plants set ups, there is no need for it really.

 

[Wills]

Hi really sorry if my other thread offended it wasnt meant to - my use of plastic/silks is just temporary while I move my tank around. Like Charlie says above you can get really good effect from them when used properly they look really good. I personally do prefer real plants but I do think artifical decor has a place in the hobby and can look really good.

One of the reasons I'm being careful and asking questions is because they are temporary for me and I dont want to spend much on them and the cheaper ones can sometimes be iffy with sharp edges. I've bought some Hugo Kamishi individual plants which seem to be ok but thing I've been frustrated with is I know I've seen better ones but don't know where to get them from. Equally even in the HK range there are full tank set ups that if maintained right would look great but are more than I want to spend right now.

My next tanks is currently 50/50 if I'm going to go artifical or real I really want an Aquadecor background and base mat rather than real rock because they look amazing but they are super expensive.

I think its important that you mentioned about your maintenance routine too, artificial decor can harbour nasties if its not looked after but that goes the same as any tank with wood and rocks etc. I think the reason it sometimes has a bit of bad rep is because a lot of beginners start with these and then encounter beginner problems and that kind of set up gets wrapped up in all of this. So when you talk about your maintenance and how you clean them it just underlines my belief that what ever the set up the best attribute in the success of any tank is a dedicated aquarist looking after the fish and tank.

Wills

 

[Deleted member 149562]

@Wills

I was not offended by your posts at all....but some of the responses that you had were derogatory towards the use of artificial and its not just on your thread but several here and on other sites (and even in person when chatting with others who keep fish) where artificial use is treated as being inferior and on occasions the individuals are made to feel bad for not using real plants cos they are better etc etc etc

All 5 of my aquariums are artificially aquascaped/planted...with a handful of real floating plants that hopefully will assist in keeping the water quality straight. All of my fish are healthy, the Ram that I lost a couple days ago was my first loss in almost 2 years and it was a 5+ year old with zero illness/disease indications...indeed her partner is thriving just as she was right til the night she died. I have a very healthy reproduction going with my Cories and Danios.....which would not be the case if there was anything wrong with the aquarium water chemistry or aquascaping.

The two below are my lounge aquariums....99% artificial with real wood and floating greenery making up the 1%. Home to Rams, Cories, Danios...all healthy, seemingly happy and thriving/breeding...the artificial plants sway with the flow and the fish shenanigans just as if they were real

The artificials are the main planting and the mangrove stumps from Superfish at ProShrimp. I change out anything that requires it and once a month the plants do get a good flush out during water changes that are done 50% weekly. My filtration is identical across all aquariums as are the heaters, everything is serviced correctly and at regular intervals.

Oh and the Ficus tween the aquariums......thats silk and real wood too

 

[emeraldking]

It's totally up to everyone what they prefer to use: Artificial plants and deco or real ones. I myself am not the biggest fan of artificial stuff in a tank but that's just me. If someone else likes differently, than that's okay as well. Who am I to judge another? And nowadays, most artificial plants and deco are fish friendly.
And of course, everybody is entitled to have their own opinion about this. But being respectful to one and another, one can mention his/her view in an adult way.

 

[Wills]

@Wills

I was not offended by your posts at all....but some of the responses that you had were derogatory towards the use of artificial and its not just on your thread but several here and on other sites (and even in person when chatting with others who keep fish) where artificial use is treated as being inferior and on occasions the individuals are made to feel bad for not using real plants cos they are better etc etc etc

All 5 of my aquariums are artificially aquascaped/planted...with a handful of real floating plants that hopefully will assist in keeping the water quality straight. All of my fish are healthy, the Ram that I lost a couple days ago was my first loss in almost 2 years and it was a 5+ year old with zero illness/disease indications...indeed her partner is thriving just as she was right til the night she died. I have a very healthy reproduction going with my Cories and Danios.....which would not be the case if there was anything wrong with the aquarium water chemistry or aquascaping.

The two below are my lounge aquariums....99% artificial with real wood and floating greenery making up the 1%. Home to Rams, Cories, Danios...all healthy, seemingly happy and thriving/breeding...the artificial plants sway with the flow and the fish shenanigans just as if they were real

The artificials are the main planting and the mangrove stumps from Superfish at ProShrimp. I change out anything that requires it and once a month the plants do get a good flush out during water changes that are done 50% weekly. My filtration is identical across all aquariums as are the heaters, everything is serviced correctly and at regular intervals.

Oh and the Ficus tween the aquariums......thats silk and real wood too

Its funny that you mentioned people using Co2 being judgy because I've been judged a lot for using it and setting the tank up that way. Equally when I've kept aggressive fish (to be fair I still do) I get judged even if its well managed.

I think this hobby is so subjective, you can look across a huge range of ways fish are kept from high tech planted, nano tanks, artificial communities, cichlid tanks, predator tanks, marine tanks the list goes on and there are amazing keepers in all those groups. But so long as you have healthy happy fish and are doing your best to meet their requirements there is wiggle room to suit the aquarist. At the end of the day the worst thing for the fish is a disillusioned, disheartened or disinterested aquarist because you will then start to see maintenance slipping, mistakes being made, delays in required actions etc.

Wills

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

I personally like the wild look. I have the more…wild variety, and I think it looks better with wild fish. However, I do have quite a few plastic decorations.

 

[itiwhetu]

I don't look down at those that want to do everything artificially, but your road to fish keeping success will have a lot more bumps in it than if you choose the natural route. I get annoyed with people who make growing plants look like a hugely difficult exercise, any tank that has a light on it and water will be able to grow plant. No fertilizers, No CO2, No special care. For some reason in this hobby it has been decided that you must vacuum your tank, you must have a sand base, you must do 50% plus water changers per week. All those things are going to be detrimental to good plant growth.

 

[AbbeysDad]

Sadly I think you find a certain amount of prejudice in many aspects of life. Some folks just seem that their way is the best way and if you aren't in their camp, you're just wrong.

There's also different levels. For example, I've come across some canister filter snobs. Now canister filters are okay, but not really the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have one and I like it, but it's a bit of a bear to tear down and clean. I think the Aquaclears are much easier to service and it's hard to beat the simplicity of the basic sponge filter.

I've spent some time on a planted tank forum where high tech with gobs of ferts, bright light, and CO2 rules the day. Although some may object, I think these folks are more aquatic gardeners than they are fishkeepers. Fish love plants but I'm not sure high tech is best for them.

Now I'll confess that I'm not a huge fan of plastic plants, but I'll also confess that I had plastic plants for a long time. I'm also not a fan of colored gravel, sponge bob, treasure chests, sunken ships, and such. For a display tank, I much prefer a more natural look and feel. Themed tanks are just not for me, but if it's your thing, have at it.

Having written all that, living plants, especially fast growing floating plants aid in water quality by converting nutrients (aka pollution) into plant tissue we later remove by trimming. Like the routine, periodic, partial water change, everything we do as responsible fishkeepers to achieve and maintain the highest possible water quality makes for healthier, happier fish and inverts.

The bottom line is that if you do sufficient frequency/volume of partial water changes, decent tank maintenance, and your fish live long, healthy lives - that's what's really important. Decor is what YOU like and the opinions of the rest of the world doesn't really matter....It's YOUR aquarium, not theirs.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Well despite biting my tongue many times, this comment by Bruce has sadly ended my enjoyment of the forum

(I really REALLY don't get why so many are allegedly incapable of growing plants in their tanks. Basically, I'm beginning to think that if you can't look after basic plants, then fish are too advanced for you).

To me, as long as you keep the husbandry right and the fish are healthy and breeding as mine are and have been disease free for many years, it absolutely should never matter whether you use artificial or real plants.

I come to forums to escape the stress of life, not to be made to feel inferior by virtue of my choice to use artificial planting.

Have a good Christmas with all of your friends and families everyone, keep safe and well in the coming year.

My fish and I bid you a farewell and best wishes for your endeavours with your own finned hooligans.

 

[itiwhetu]

Well despite biting my tongue many times, this comment by Bruce has sadly ended my enjoyment of the forum



To me, as long as you keep the husbandry right and the fish are healthy and breeding as mine are and have been disease free for many years, it absolutely should never matter whether you use artificial or real plants.

I come to forums to escape the stress of life, not to be made to feel inferior by virtue of my choice to use artificial planting.

Have a good Christmas with all of your friends and families everyone, keep safe and well in the coming year.

My fish and I bid you a farewell and best wishes for your endeavours with your own finned hooligans.

That is a shame, most of what I read on here I don't agree with and would never do in my own aquariums, but I hope that the few people I inspire, and help have made my presence on TFF worthwhile. Consider if your input helps someone, if it does then stick around and help those people who understand you.

 

[FishHobby99]

Itiwhetu, you have helped me even if I don‘t agree with 100% of what you say. I have never agreed with 100% of what anyone says.

 

[MonsieurLaGrenuoille]

I am not having a rant or anything like that, so no-one needs to get their proverbials into a knot

But....

Why is there so much anti-artificial...erm...for want of a better descriptive phrase...."snobbery" in fishkeeping generally (not just amongst people here but everywhere) about the use of artificial aquascape items and plants?

Using artificial items within an aquarium does not mean that a fishkeeper is somehow inferior or wrong or cruel, so why do people often get all huffy and puffy and make people feel bad or feel like they are doomed to fail as fishkeepers just cos they use artificial and not the "real mccoy" in their aquariums?

There are a multitude of reasons why people do not go down the real plant route....everything from a lack of green thumbs to younger people keeping fish on a tight budget and not able to afford to get all the exotic plants, CO2 etc

It is high time that those of us who use artificial were treated equally to those using real everything. Artificial aquatic items have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years, they are lifelike, they don't always have neon dayglo colours like 30 years ago....and most importantly the fish are not harmed by them, which is or should be the goal of EVERY fishkeeper

We aren't second class fishkeepers by virtue of our preferences or options or lack of options in regard to artificial aquascaping and planting....talking down to people and making them feel uncomfortable or useless just cos they don't have the ability or the financial means or are youngsters starting out when they have artificial everything is seriously not a nice thing to do and can put people right off venturing into this wonderful pastime and keep them off sites like these.

If the fish are healthy and aquarium maintenance is done properly...why is there such a gulf tween those who use real everything to those who don't?

I do absolutely agree to your exposition Dc. McCoy.

 

[FishHobby99]

Well despite biting my tongue many times, this comment by Bruce has sadly ended my enjoyment of the forum



To me, as long as you keep the husbandry right and the fish are healthy and breeding as mine are and have been disease free for many years, it absolutely should never matter whether you use artificial or real plants.

I come to forums to escape the stress of life, not to be made to feel inferior by virtue of my choice to use artificial planting.

Have a good Christmas with all of your friends and families everyone, keep safe and well in the coming year.

My fish and I bid you a farewell and best wishes for your endeavours with your own finned hooligans.

Please don’t allow that man to drive you away. He came down so hard on me when I first joined this forum that I nearly left. He seldom lets up & once I had to report him for a vicious & uncalled for personal attack on me. Recently he launched into a diatribe that referenced Native American genocide. I am positive the sickening words were said because I‘ve mentioned being Native. So he is truly in my rear mirror forever now.

I have some artificial silk plants that were recommended by itiwhetu, from Exo Terra. I ordered more yesterday. They are the softest silk plants I’ve ever seen. Once PetSmart sent me a coupon good for $10 off a $20 purchase. Frugal me rushed out & bought 2 silk plants, >$20. They looked pretty in the cellophane bags, but turned out to have sharp edges, so I tossed them into a vase of nice fake orchids.

I hope you reconsider & stay.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Recently he launched into a diatribe that referenced Native American genocide.

No, I didn't.

I am positive the sickening words were said because I‘ve mentioned being Native.

No they weren't.
But if you want to play 'Victim', be my guest.