Another Algae Question

[danon]

Evening all,

Tank has been set up for just over 4 months, with Malawi cichlids.
Coral sand and 40kilo of ocean rock.

Since the tank was cycled i have had lots and lots of algae, over everything!

I bought 2 Bristlenose catfish 3 weeks ago and they have COMPLETELY cleaned the glass, behind heater etc.
They do cling to the rocks but dont seem to get rid of much algae, its now getting on my nerves!!

I have taken all the rock out 4 times, and power washed it in the garden, it comes up really clean but, a few weeks later it is covered again and looks a mess.

pH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40, it has always been 40

All the stats above are always the same and i do a 20% water change every 7 days.

Is there anything i can do or do i just have to live with it?

The lights are on a timer, 12.00 till 14.00 and again at 19.00 until 11.00. No sunlight is ever on the tank.

Thanks in advance.

 

[SJ2K]

Hmmm, might have high phosphate? You can get a test kit for that If it turns out you do, you can buy phosphate remover pads which you stick in the filter.

 

[waterdrop]

The phosphate idea certainly seems possible, I've been thinking about getting one of those kits myself. My understanding though is that its just one of the more detailed things amidst quite a few interacting factors.

Certainly light is one of the first you can continue to look at. I'm probably an idiot but I can't understand the military time numbers or whatever you used above. Are you saying the timers are on for 2 hours from noon til 2pm and then essentially all night? What type of lights are they.. incandescent, flourscent, compact flourescent? How many lights at what wattage each? (What Kelvin spectrum or plain white?) Are you going for the "low-light" technique (ie. between 1.0 and 1.5 watts per US gallon of tank volume?)

At the risk of repeating what others are probably sick of hearing, lol, you are aware that algae is an opportunist.. it comes in lots of species and each has a particular niche of non-normal water parameters that it can flourish in I think. When the normal plants of an aquarium hit some limiting factor, like not enough CO2 (which is common) or some other critical nutrient to growth, then they stop using up -the other- nutrients/essentials and that's when a particular algae steps up to the plate and says "fine, these leftovers are just great for me!" and it takes off and grows like crazy.

I think you can sort of simplify down to these 3 areas to lump things into: light, fertilization (both macro and micro nutrients) and finally, CO2. Both plants and algae need various amounts of these 3 essential things, but each species of each varies a lot in how much of each it needs. Its very common to have enough light to allow the plants to try to out-grow one of the other things, like CO2 or fertilizer, which then opens the door and invites in the algae.

Anyway, hope that helps intro things a little. I'm just trying to learn more about that stuff myself, so I can't give you any confident directions. The plant guys here really know their stuff but its complicated enough that it takes us beginners a while to put it together I think!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Axleuk]

The phosphate idea certainly seems possible, I've been thinking about getting one of those kits myself. My understanding though is that its just one of the more detailed things amidst quite a few interacting factors.

Certainly light is one of the first you can continue to look at. I'm probably an idiot but I can't understand the military time numbers or whatever you used above. Are you saying the timers are on for 2 hours from noon til 2pm and then essentially all night? What type of lights are they.. incandescent, flourscent, compact flourescent? How many lights at what wattage each? (What Kelvin spectrum or plain white?) Are you going for the "low-light" technique (ie. between 1.0 and 1.5 watts per US gallon of tank volume?)

At the risk of repeating what others are probably sick of hearing, lol, you are aware that algae is an opportunist.. it comes in lots of species and each has a particular niche of non-normal water parameters that it can flourish in I think. When the normal plants of an aquarium hit some limiting factor, like not enough CO2 (which is common) or some other critical nutrient to growth, then they stop using up -the other- nutrients/essentials and that's when a particular algae steps up to the plate and says "fine, these leftovers are just great for me!" and it takes off and grows like crazy.

I think you can sort of simplify down to these 3 areas to lump things into: light, fertilization (both macro and micro nutrients) and finally, CO2. Both plants and algae need various amounts of these 3 essential things, but each species of each varies a lot in how much of each it needs. Its very common to have enough light to allow the plants to try to out-grow one of the other things, like CO2 or fertilizer, which then opens the door and invites in the algae.

Anyway, hope that helps intro things a little. I'm just trying to learn more about that stuff myself, so I can't give you any confident directions. The plant guys here really know their stuff but its complicated enough that it takes us beginners a while to put it together I think!

~~waterdrop~~

12:00am to 2pm then 7pm til 11pm

 

[waterdrop]

Well then, that few hours of total light time with a sizeable siesta in the middle should mean that you are doing what you can from the point of view of lighting.

 

[jglover]

The lights are on a timer, 12.00 till 14.00 and again at 19.00 until 11.00. No sunlight is ever on the tank.

Thanks in advance.

Is that really 1900 to 1100....that is from 7pm in the evening till 11am the next morning......or should be 1900 to 2300, from 7-11pm? If it is the former, then the light is the problem.

John

 

[SJ2K]

The lights are on a timer, 12.00 till 14.00 and again at 19.00 until 11.00. No sunlight is ever on the tank.

Thanks in advance.

Is that really 1900 to 1100....that is from 7pm in the evening till 11am the next morning......or should be 1900 to 2300, from 7-11pm? If it is the former, then the light is the problem.

John

Id assumed he ment 23.00 If were going to use 24hr clock people, lets double check it, some people have enough trouble with it as is

 

[waterdrop]

SJ2K,

Do you have a particular Phosphate test you'd recommend?

WD

 

[danon]

Soory all, my mistake

Lights are on at 12:00, lunchtime till 2:00 afternoon.

Then back on again at 7:00, evening until 11:00, EVENING

In total 6 hours per day.

As the tank is a Mbuna set-up there are NO plants.

Lights are 2X36in 30W and 1x30inch 25W.

Thanks for the help so far, and glad i could clear up the time issue. Had my THICK head on, that day.

 

[Dave Spencer]

SJ2K,

Do you have a particular Phosphate test you'd recommend?

WD

In a planted tank, GSA is a good indication that phosphate dosing needs increasing.

I have never known high phophates to cause algae in an aquarium. I don`t think there has been any research as to the effect of phosphates on fish. This leads to the question...is there a need for a phosphate test kit?

Danon, if you did a fishless cycle then you will have been adding ammonia, which will ultimately bring you algae. Algae hates being constantly hassled, so a bit of hard work clearing it may be the answer in the long term.

What type of algae is it? Photo or description will help.

What is the break in the lighting period for? Is it to suit your life style for viewing the fish?

Dave.

 

[danon]

Dave,

I did do a fishless cycle, which was completed about 3 months ago.

The break in the lighting was purely to try and cut down on the algae growth, as i thought this was the cause.

Algae is a green colour, like i said i have not cleaned the glass since adding the Bristlenose, there is never any on the glass, anymore.

It is purely the rocks, when i have cleaned them, they look great. Slowly the agae builds up until it looks unsightly, as if i have neglected the tank. Coral sand also does not appear to get any on it, just on the glass, beneath the level of sand, ie where the Bristlenose can't reach.

 

[Dave Spencer]

Here are some thoughts on the siesta:

http/www.fishforums.net/content/Scientif...Lighting-Algae/

In your case, without CO2 injection, I would knock it on the head.

If your algae is originating in the substrate at the front of the glass, I am going to guess it is BGA, a cyanobacter. IME, if you cut the daylight out where it hits the substrate it disappears. I still get small amounts in my sand substrates from time to time (never in ADA Aqua Soil ). This is an indication of poor circulation resulting in a nitrate deficiency in that area.

Your best bet may be to either put some black tape along the substrate line where it receives daylight (could look ugly), or use a credit card against the inside of the glass to push it back down. I had a Juwel Lido where I just kept the substrate level below the level of the front trim.

A 50% water change, followed by a three day total black out, followed by another 50% water change will see it off, provided I am right and it is BGA . A photo really would help. If it is BGA, you might find it a little persistent, but if you keep hassling it at its points of origin in the substrate, you shouldn`t get any unsightly take over.

Dave.

 

[danon]

Here is a couple of pics, as requested.

Hope this helps, thanks so far