Anemone Problem?

[s0101216]

I am new to marine fish keeping and recently purchased an Anemone which I don't actually know the name of (I was told but have fogoton). It is white with light pinky ends and very flowey.

I bought it on Sunday and it seemed fine, sitting near the front of the tank and ate happily yesterday. I have come home this evening to find it on a rock withdrawn into a small ball with just the end of a couple of tips showing. There is a thin stringy trail of a few inches as well.

IS THIS NORMAL OR DO I HAVE A VERY SICK ANEMONE???

Any advoce greatly appreciated!

 

[fish_keeper2]

this is probly the worst SW newb mistake. i dont know what going on with it but its probly very stressed and if it dies it WILL possibly(more than likely depending on the size or your tank) crash your tank. they require PERFECT water and intense lighting and i also belive it requires regular feedings. Nav or SH might be able to give more info on this.

 

[s0101216]

this is probly the worst SW newb mistake. i dont know what going on with it but its probly very stressed and if it dies it WILL possibly(more than likely depending on the size or your tank) crash your tank. they require PERFECT water and intense lighting and i also belive it requires regular feedings. Nav or SH might be able to give more info on this.

It went back to normal again and ate fine this evening sitting st the front of the tank picking up bits of food that were floating past. The fish shop said to directly feed it every other day. Is this enough?

My water conditions are spot on so I am hoping it will be ok.

Thanks

 

[Tiggs]

first of all you shouldnt have a nem if you have:

a- a new tank
b- no idea what it is
c- no idea what it needs
d- its white and bleached

as for why it shrunk it could be any reason, stress, digestion, water expelling.......but considering a,b,c and d it dont look good.

as for you lfs.....why did they sell it to you and feeding that often is a LOT.

 

[andywg]

From an ethical point of view I don't think anyone new to SW should have them. something like less than 5% survive being shpped from the reef, and of those less than 20% are alive two years later. This is a creature that lives over 100 years in the wild...

finding the exact species name of the nem will be important as they all have different requirements.

 

[The-Raven]

The one thing I hate about this board is that everyone is so quick to tell you what an idiot you are without offering any real help. I'm pretty sure he knows what a mistake it was NOW - so instead of reminding him of that, let's try to actually give him some help?

It's probably a Condylactus from the description - I have one as well..

This look anything like it? This is a foggy picture, took this a while ago when I kicked up way too much sand when adding new rock.


Anyway, mine withdraws at night every once in a while for almost no apparent reason - there may be one, but I can never figure it out. Sometimes it does it when it hasn't been fed... sometimes it does it when it's JUST been fed, sometimes it's because I just added some water... sometimes if I haven't touched the tank at all.

In fact last night it withdrew and for a second I thought that a hermit I had added yesterday had eaten it or something, but here it is in the morning perfectly bloomed.


They are quite sensitive to changes in your tank though, moving it often, adding things, etc can stress it out, and common sense just tells us that withdrawing is a stress reaction.

My advice? If you see it withdrawn - don't touch your tank (ie, add anything in terms of livestock or decorations, remove anything) for at least 2 weeks.

 

[Tiggs]

"The one thing I hate about this board is that everyone is so quick to tell you what an idiot you are "

nothing to do with this board.....its the internet.

if you do something stupid and choose to tell the entire population of the earth.....some people will call you stupid......on the whole that seems a small price to pay to get some good advice along with "idiot" comments......in fact compare it to the LFS where he was not called an idiot but had to hand over money for a nem that was screwed already - i think he got a better deal here!

 

[The-Raven]

"The one thing I hate about this board is that everyone is so quick to tell you what an idiot you are "

nothing to do with this board.....its the internet.

if you do something stupid and choose to tell the entire population of the earth.....some people will call you stupid......on the whole that seems a small price to pay to get some good advice along with "idiot" comments......in fact compare it to the LFS where he was not called an idiot but had to hand over money for a nem that was screwed already - i think he got a better deal here!

Well that's a different matter really... An LFS is out to make money, period. If you go in there and want to buy something, they may ask 'you know this is saltwater, right?' and that's about it. Because as long as the animal lives beyond the 3 days or whatever their 'guarantee' is, they don't care. I've never had an LFS - or any store for that matter - refuse a sale to me because I was ill informed about the product.

On to the internet matter, when someone comes to a board for help and all everyone does is say 'you shouldn't have done that, you're screwed' without offering any help... I understand it's the internet, but this forum is 'the friendliest fish forum around'... or so the banner says.

 

[Lynden]

My two anemones died, the first one since he was kind of screwed from the start, and the second looked okay, then not okay, then okay again, then withered away and died. Condy's are not very easy anemones, and since all anemones should be rated as "expert", condys are even harder. One of the things that makes them harder is the fact that they do not usually have a clown with them.

Anemones are literally giant polyps, and since anemones are simply like big bags of water, I consider them as "giant, dangerous, hard-to-keep, and a threat to your tank" corals. They are like snails armed with nuclear artillery, and can bomb the tank. They can even give a human a third degree chemical burn- definetly not something you would want your corals to experience. Also, they can easily get munched up in a filter and spread their poison throughout the tank.

They do need near perfect conditions and about 4 watts of light per gallon- it has to be the right (in other words, expensive) kind too, not below 8000k. I would not even attempt them nowadays if my tank is not 10 months old with metal halide lighting, since they are so demanding. And this is coming from the guy who always takes the easy way out and puts his morays in freshwater!

Its too bad that they are even offered for sale. It is hardly the fault of the purchaser, since they are often regarded as easy-to-keep. In my opinion, these lovely animals should be left in the ocean. It is much easier to just purchase a nice leather coral, since clowns will host these too. Not that its all about the clowns here.

This site isnt a mean one, most of them who look like it just hate to see animals die. And take out their anger on the animal's owner.

-Lynden

 

[andywg]

They do need near perfect conditions and about 4 watts of light per gallon- it has to be the right (in other words, expensive) kind too, not below 8000k. I would not even attempt them nowadays if my tank is not 10 months old with metal halide lighting, since they are so demanding. And this is coming from the guy who always takes the easy way out and puts his morays in freshwater!

That point about the lighting temp is wrong. The best temp for anemones will be as close to sunlight as possible: around 6500K. Any higher colour temps are just for better asthetics. The need for higher temps is a strange myth that is abound. All they really are for is because most peeps don't like looking at a tank that looks like it's filled with cat wee.

Normally, for the punch of light necessary for Nems, this will mean MH or overdrived T5 VHO lighting.

Nems are getting a rep for being impossible to keep; which is probably not right - but I'd sooner that than too many are bought and die. It is possible to keep them alive and some people have been very successful and managed to get them to clone, but they do come with a health warning for the tank. One of the most succesful guys I know who had a bubbletip clone like 13 times still had it near-crash twice and in its 6 years with him has wiped out an entire tank's worth of fish twice.

Best advice I have for Nems is:

Get the correct lighting (there are a few who prefer slightly shadier parts of the tank, though most like powerful lights)

Protect any powerheads, they will move around until they are happy and may get mulched which can have dire consequences.

HTH

Andy

 

[Tiggs]

I understand it's the internet, but this forum is 'the friendliest fish forum around'... or so the banner says.

then he's lucky he didnt go on a nasty forum

 

[Lynden]

I personally only have 6500k, others say its not good enough, i think it is, but you do need a little blue light because its a needed spectrum. I have 3 48'' 6500k flourescent tubes, and one 48'' actinic to boost the blue spec, and make it a lttle prettier, since it is really grating to have to look at a piss-yellow tank all of the time. Also, live rock seems to do a little better with a higher blue output. Another reason for people thinking high colour temp is that the shops tell em that so that the shops make more money

I dont think they are impossible to keep, i just think they deserve a really good tank. I plan on a pizza or carpet anemone someday in my one day 150 gallon.

 

[Navarre]

OK i have something to add from a good friend of mine at the end of this post but its long and you may want to fall alseep!

Firstly... Condyclactus (or atlantic) anenomes are probably the easiest anenoke to keep with the exception of Aiptasia and Majanoes I had a condyclactus with no problems but they do grow fast and i had to rehouse it. The learning curve and difficulty increase from this stage forward.. bubble tips, carpets, Malues etc are all very much harder to keep. YEs thei survival rate is poor.. yes they live for hundreds perhaps thousands of years in the wild so can we really ofer them a good life? Probably not to be hoenst.. However those that are captured and in captiviy need good homes or they will die even sooner. I have a junenile bubble tip that appeared out of my liverock.. would i have bought it? NOpe.. now i have it will i return it to a shop? Nowhat! ift best chance of survival is now in my tank. And this is where it will stay unless it causes problems.

As for lighting.. 6500k is the required lighting.. anyhting else is asthetics as mentioned above. blue lights are not essential at all! If blue light was so important then we would see photo sensative cretures lviing in far greater depths on reefs.. they dont and thus this means blue light is not important other than pleasing our eyes.

Here is a study that a friend made on light and what corals derive from it.. Its mainly aimed at acros but as anemones are high light loving cratures then the principles are the same.

Blue light from 20000k bulbs is in the order of 420nm-ish. At these wavelengths the light is absorbed by chlorophyll a. At 460nm the light is blue/green and is absorbed by chlorophyll b.

Although I don't know the exact output of the Arcadia 20000k it would seem that nearly all the light is falling into these two wavelengths.

So how does that affect the price of fish ?

Photosynthesis uses natural light with wavelengths from about 340-800nm (roughly UV>>Infra Red).

Chlorophyll a absorbs light at 420 and over 680nm - this I think is significant.

Chlorophyll b absorbs at 460 and approx 650nm.

It's the over 680nm bit that sticks out to me.

Clear as custard .

Lets take a step back:

Photosynthesis uses the entire light spectrum to produce carbohydrate and O2. This light is 'transported' and 'converted' into carbohydrates and oxygen by chlorophyll a and b and is suplimented by xanthophyll (absorbs at 490nm-ish) and bacterio-chlorophyll (absorbs at 360 and 780nm-ish).

All these molecules play a role in photosynthesis. With predominantly blue light, only chlorophyll a and b will be used. So the other molecules and their vital role in the chain will be significantly reduced. Exactly what the effect of this is I'm not sure .

To come back to the over 680nm bit. For photosysnthesis to function correctly Adenosine Tri Phosphate (ATP) must be produced. This is done by a balanced reaction between two photosystems within the cell. These are imaginatively called photosystem 1 and 2 .

Both photosystems can be 'excited' by light below 680nm, but only photosystem 1 can be 'excited' by light between 680-700nm.

Phew - stick with it I've nearly finished .

20000k lights have almost no light at the 680-700nm wavelength. So the portion of the reaction that occurs with light over this range will hardly occur.

What the net result of this would be I can only make a best guess. I think that the imbalance of the reaction could lead to less ATP production and hence less carbohydrate and therefore less growth. Additionally, more O2 should be produced.

Of course I'm probably way off here but has anyone noticed that their SPS growth increases under 10000k or (even better) a mixed suite of bulbs.

As I'm probably only talking to myself at this stage, I doubt I'll find out

Hope this helps.

 

[Lynden]

Hey, if all this info was givin just now, why did only one person respond to my topic about it?

 

[Opcn]

Well, The origional poster is not an idiot, simply a newbie who made a mistake, thats all.