🌟 Exclusive Amazon Black Friday Deals 2024 🌟

Don’t miss out on the best deals of the season! Shop now 🎁

Ammonia Problems :(

After reading about swordtails it's too small for them as well.

Do you have anything to add about the uncycled filter? What are you going to do?
 
Wc until it sits right I guess I got 0 out of it yesterday and I've just done another and had .25 out of it will do 50% wc in a min and then check it again in an hour
 
Ok I hope I've done the right thing........the swordtails have been granted a new home in my friends 240ltr she is coming for all 4 tomorrow unfortunately she wont take the Angels even temporarily 2 are about a 10p and 2 are about 50p in size will they be alright in that tank temporarily or should I look at re homing them as well?
 
You need to stop adding new fish until you get things sorted out. What you will see below pertains to the tank where you tested for .50 ammonia recently. Doing all the other things you have since then in terms of adding fish should be undone and you she be back to the point you were when you started this thread.
 
Before reading further I want to ake it clear the the best solution to most fish in cycling problems that do not involve an impossible level of overstocking is to add bacteria to the tank, this is the safest and quickest fix possible, this can be done using Dr Tim's One and Only or Tetra's Safe Start, both viable bottled bacteria.The other choice is to get more cycled media from anybody you can find willing to donate some. In the states there are people who sell cycled media, I don't know if this is done in the UK. That said.....
 
OK- great with the numbers, we can make some progress. The first step is for you to understand what makes ammonia dangerous. There are two forms of ammonia when it is in water. One is aamonium, aka NH$, and the other it the actual ammonia gas, NH3. NH3 is highly toxic to fish and at a level of .05 ppm is harming things for sure. NH4 on the  other hand is way less harmful and fish can tolerate much higher levels and for longer. However, this does not mean NH4 is always harmless no mate the level or how longer the exposure. Elevated NH4 levels can burn fish. For most fish, it ammonia were 100% NH4 they can usually handle up to about 2 ppm for a bit of time and some fish can take much higher and/or for longer before its an issue. I have seen research studies where total ammonia levels reach double digits and it did not kill the fish even when exposed for days. Please, do not try this at home.
smile.png

 
Now, for the next part of this. When we test for ammonia out kits measure the combined total of NH3 and NH4. So how can we know how much of what we tested is in each form? The answer depends upon the pH and temperature of the tank. These two factors determine what the levels are for any given tank and test results. There is a complex formulas for determining the answer. But there are also pre-made charts or calculators for this which makes it possible for mathematically challenged folks like me to get the answer. Here is a good one, note, it works for both fresh and salt water and all in between. For those with fw tanks the salinity number to enter is 0. http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
 
The only choice you need to make is the very first box which should be set to NH (NH3 + NH4). This matches your test kit results. The answer we want is the NH3 Concentration. When I run the pH and temperature numbers you supplied, your NH3 level was .0036 ppm. Your fish could likely live their entire lives in that level. While different sources peg the danger level for NH3 at different numbers, most agree .05 ppm is the level where harm starts being done. The other thing there seems to be agreement on is that at under .02 ppm, virtually nothing in a tank is at risk. So from that point of view, your NH3 ammonia would need to rise by 550% (5.5 times) before it was even approaching a minimal level of concern and it would have to increase 1,388% (almost 14 times) to be at a level where for sure it is too high.
 
So what does all this mean? It means you should not be thinking about changing water until your test results approach between 2 and 3 ppm for ammonia at a pH of 7.0 and a temp of 28C. In fact, it takes a reading of 7.0 ppm on your test kit before NH3 hits that .05 ppm level in your tank. However, the ability of ammonia as NH4 to cause burns would argue against allowing a 7.0 reading to be allowed to go with out action to lower it.
 
The point here is to get the tank in question cycled for sure, you need to allow your ammonia levels to rise a lot higher than you have been so far. The higher the better as long as the NH3 stays under .05 ppm using the calculator linked above. Of course, there are no hard and fast rules because different fish are differently sensitive to ammonia (and nitrite). So we also need to monitor the fish. If they are showing signs of distress or are behaving abnormally, this trumps all the numbers and test and one needs to act.
 
Now, this only covers the ammonia part of things. Nitrite is also toxic to fish. However, the way it harms fish can be counteracted over the short term by adding chloride to the water. Common salt is sodium chloride and chloride is about 2/3 of the mix. So plain old salt can be used shot term to prevent nitrite poisoning. This works to block the effect of nitrite inside the fish but does not do anything to prevent the bacteria from getting the full benefit. But I wont add to what you need to learn about this side of things until you start to have nitrite readings. And let me know in a PM to be sure if you want my suggestion on how to proceed from that point.
 
I will close by saying I hope the above information has been daunting and seems like it is much more complicated than you like. You need to be more of a chemist than most really care to become. And that is one of the best reasons to do a fishless cycle and not a fish in one. Your best course of action here is to rehome the fish and complete a fishless cycle. Afterwords, you can take the fish back. Equally good, if you want to leave the fish in, would be adding bacteria, enough to cycle the tank in a matter of days rather than weeks. This matters to the fish. Many stores will take back fish for store credit if you explain you don't want a refund, just the chance to complete the fishless cycle and that you will be back with the credit to use there in a few weeks. Note: there is a level of stocking in any given tank which will make it impossible to get that tank cycled with fish in no matter what you do.
 
YW Meandmykribs- but, you should know that I tend to been in a minority on this site for how to cycle with fish in. Most will suggest it is imperative to do water changes to keep nitrite and ammonia under .25 ppm. If you want to go that route, it will take much much longer time to get a tank cycled and ideally should use a smaller stocking level to start. Thus, if you err on the side of caution, fish will likely not suffer harm. It will just require that much more time.
 
If you do not stay on top of what I am suggesting, which is intended to get the cycling complete more rapidly and still not harm the fish, you may end up harming fish if you err on the upside. Avoiding that takes the additional learning and understanding and work as I outlined above.
 
Finally, whichever route one goes with fish in cycling, it cannot be done with a full fish load unless one can add enough bacteria at the outset to start about 75% cycled from the get go. One needs to start with a maximum number of fish for the tank size. It is the only way to control ammonia production. To become fully stocked one must go through a series of decreasingly problematic mini-cycles.
 
Ok so my friend has finally been and taken the 4 swordtails and the 2 bigger angels leaving me with 2 guppies and 2 angels is this a better stocking list d=for what you suggested TwoTankAmin?
 
Fewer fish is always better. Your fish are not one's preferred for fish in cycling, but lowering the bio-load is one of the few ways you can have any control over a fish in cycle. Removing those you did cerytainly gives those that remain a better chance to be OK though the cycle, but it is not a guarantee.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top