Ammonia Crisis, Fix Old Or Use New Tank?

[fiveqs]

Sooo... My Daughter moved to japan and left us with her comet goldfish, a black moor, and a pleco, 3",1.5", and 3". They're currently in a 5gal tank. Just got the API kit ( fish acting oddly lately) and ammonia is 8+ ppm, Ph 6.0, nitrites .5-1, nitrates 160. We had figured they needed a larger tank so I started a 10 gal up with some gravel from the old tank and RO water about 3 weeks ago. In the new tank Ph is 6.8, and nitrates 10-20 didn't test for nitrites or ammonia as it has no fish. Temps are already matched.  Also the small tank's filter stopped running a few weeks ago (for less than a day) gunk in the impeller and filter pad completely clogged (put in a new one).
   So, the big question is, do I do massive water changes / ammonia locker etc. or just go ahead and move the fish over despite the risk of shock from change in Ph, ammonia levels, etc.? The Comet's hanging at the bottom moving little with tail curled to one side the other two seem normal so far. With these levels I'm suprised they're still going.
  Can someone please help quick? Don't think they have much time and may already have damage.
Thank You!
Paul Q

 

[Ninjouzata]

Unfortunately even the 10g is not big enough for these fish. The comet needs a 75g, and the black moor a 20g+. 
Depending on the type of pleco (which I fear it's likely a common) could also need a very large tank. If you can get a picture of it someone should be able to ID for you.
 
I think you may want to move the fish over to the 10g, but use the water from the 5g, so it'll be like doing a big water change, as well as moving the filter media over.
I am not sure if the 5g has old tank syndrome or not by that amount of nitrates though so you may want to wait for someone more experienced to advise you before doing anything.
 
If it is OTS then you could most certainly kill the fish by moving them

 
Once you've got that taken care of, I'd suggest re-homing them.
Sorry you're having to deal with this, and 

to TFF.

 

[fiveqs]

Unfortunately we fell victim to ignorance about all three fish my daughter won the "little" goldfish at a comicon. when it started getting bigger it was given progressively larger jars and then the 5 gal tank. It was lonely, so my wife got the moor, and when algae started growing she got the pleco. So, after a year I started wondering how long they live (surely can't be more than a year or two ;-) and how big they get. Well after finding out (we had already gotten the ten gallon) I looked up the others. Aacckk, they get big, real big. So, it looks like it's going to be progressively larger tanks, probably ending up in a Koi/Goldfish pond. But for now, just trying to keep my daughter's beloved Comet (named Martin) alive along with the rest, learning as quickly as possible, panicing periodically, and finding forums
   Thank you for the help, I think we're going to try moving them over to the new tank. Hope it works!
Paul Q

 

[Ninjouzata]

Alot of people start out in a similar situation, so you're definitely not alone. The good thing is you're trying to do something about it.
 
Keep an eye out on craigslist, there are some good deals on there. The sooner you get a bigger tank the better.
 
I hope the move goes well.

 

[tunagirll]

whew few things going on!
 
Okay, the first issue is your change of filter a few weeks ago. Most of the bacteria that filter the water would have been in the old filter - when you changed to a new one, you completely reset the cycle in the tank.
 
The good news is that while it's likely OTS is happening in the tank, most of your problems are revolving around the fact that you are essentially right now doing a 'fish in' cycle with some very messy fish in a very small tank!
 
The stress is most likely due to the cycle happening and not OTS. So do an immediate 70% water change and then another one tomorrow and see how your fish are. They should pick up almost immediately.
 
Once they look a little less stressed, shift them to the new tank ALONG WITH your filter that you have in their current tank. What bacteria you have cultivated in your current 'fish in' cycle will be in that filter so it needs to come along for the ride. If you have purchased a filter for the new tank, then run BOTH filters. It can only help you as they are still going to be messy in the new tank.
 
Don't worry about the different pH, a 0.8 difference is not a lot.
 
In the new tank you will still need to do regular changes. Ideally test and anytime the ammonia or nitrite (not nitrate) is over 0.25 you should do a 50% change. You'll know when the cycle is done because the ammonia and nitrites will stop drifting up. You'll need them to go into larger tanks but this will keep them okay until then
 
Hope this helps

 

[fiveqs]

OK, First, Thank you very much for the helpful replies!  I actually moved the fish over to the new tank about 30 hours ago (along with putting the old filter media in the new tank's filter). To run both filters on the new tank I'd have to leave the hood off or try to cut a big chunk out of the hood to fit it over the other filter.  The Black Moor and Pleco were instantly throwing a party, the Comet, however, is just a little better. The Black Moor is constantly swimming around him (Exhibiting a behavior that until the last couple of weeks I would have thought aquarium fish incapable of), comforting him ever so gently. He's mostly hanging near the heater on the bottom, until feeding, when it's like he's young and healthy again.
Anyway, the new numbers are...
Ph-   around 6 
Ammonia-  1.0
Nitrites-   .5-1
Nitrates-   80 and maybe a bit higher
 
So is this likely a spike that will come down on it's own, or should I be doing relatively big water changes (5, 10, 20, 25% ?) or adding Ammo-chips etc?  I don't want to inhibit bacterial growth.
BTW, later the same day I changed the media out of the old filter my brain woke up and thought "OH Cr@#$$#@!!!" I shouldn't have done that" but it was buried in the trash and was basically a lump of clay that water couldn't get thru anyway. Ahh, hindsight  
I really feel bad for Martin, he's had a tough go of it. Stll holding out hope that he'll come around.
Again, Thanks for all the help!!
Paul Q

 

[tunagirll]

That spike will come down on its own, but not before it takes out some of your fish. You'll need to do a 50% change to get it down to acceptable levels. (eg 50% change reduces a 1.0ppm to 0.50ppm) Keep on top of it and your comet should recover

 
You can add more media to your filter to provide a 'larger' home for your bacterial colony, which can help. Just add material like ceramisub or other media to create a greater surface.

 

[fiveqs]

Okay, did 50% water change last night, and another this afternoon. The numbers just now a few hours after the second change are.
PH-   6.4
Ammonia-   .25-.5
Nitrites-   .25
Nitrates-   10-20
Seems much better. Last night prior to the first change both goldfish looked bad. The Black Moor was laying on the gravel on the bottom with it's fins just hanging down twitching now and then. They wer quite a bit better by morning and seem completely normal now. Not sure how long to keep up the changes or how big to make them but will keep testing and adjusting. Really appreciate the help I've gotten here!
Thank You!!!
Paul Q