Advice From Pet Store - True?

[johnnyjohnson]

I stopped at a local pet store yesterday and owner gave me some advice and i would like to know what you guys think. She said to help the nitrogen cycle along i could put air stones under the filter cartridges in the filter box and it would help provide extra oxygen to the bacteria growing on it.
Makes sense to me but i am no expert. what are your thoughts?

thanks

 

[drobbyb]

Adding an airstone will do nothing to make that bacteria establish faster.

 

[johnnyjohnson]

would it not provide more oxygen directly to the filter media thus encouraging a better place for the bacteria to grow? can you tell me why this wouldnt do any good or is it just your opinion?

 

[rewlyn]

no it actually creates an air pocket which can stop your filter, i put my airstone under my internal filter thinking the same but all it did was fil my filter up with air and it could not pump water it just pumped nothing, so no i would not recommend it. and if your wondering why the pet shop would say that well if they told everyone the truth they would go out of business, hope this helps

 

[Amunet]

The bacteria will be getting plenty of oxygen from the flow the filter is producing on its own.

 

[waterdrop]

The suggestion sort of plays on the idea that bubbles of air somehow inject more oxygen into water. Nearly all of us have thought this might be the case when we first saw airstones in aquariums but as has been discussed many times on TFF, the science doesn't bear this out. The length of time an air bubble is in existence is not long enough for significant gas exchange to occur, so the only aid to gas exchange comes from surface disturbance. Only the large surface of a tank plays a significant role in oxygen exchange.
So I agree with Robby and Amunet that this action should not enhance the oxygen for bacteria.

Likewise, I agree with Rewlyn's point that filters are designed to function in certain ways and you can't just necessarily disrupt that. I believe that both internal and cannister filters that use pumps would risk air blockage, as rewlyn says, if bubbles were introduced inside them. We've all experienced pumps losing their prime when their initial pockets of air come together and do not leave the impeller any water to push against! I suppose its possible that HOB filters or sump filters might not necessarily have this problem.

So the one curious thing that remains is why a local pet store lady would suggest this? I find it surprising that she was even aware of the existance of the nitrogen cycle. That's rare. But also to be aware that oxygen is indeed a factor for colony grown (it is) is even more rare and makes me wonder if indeed her suggestion was coming from some sort of direct experience where air was bubbled in a large sump filter or a large HOB box, in which scenerio it might indeed have a bit of "wet/dry filter" effect and be useful. Oh well, probably we'll never really know...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah i can see her thinking as the bacteria do grow better in a high oxygen environment and we often recommend that cycling tanks have an airstone running or the water depth and filter set to give good surface turbulance and therefore get plenty of oxygen into the filter column. but as above you'll knacker up the filter doing what she said.

 

[johnnyjohnson]

thanks waterdrop.

fish store owner has a degree in marine biology and has been keeping fish for 30 some odd years. She seems to be very knowledgeable but i wanted to see what the concensus on here was before i did it. She didnt make any promises on this like it was a miracle cure to cycle faster or anything, she just said " it would help to oxygenate the water in the filter at one of the prime places for the bacteria to grow". I think i am going to try it and see what happens, i have very large HOB filters and dont think it will mess it up. I will let you guys know. Dont really have a way of knowing if it does any good for the nitrogen cycle but if it doesnt affect the filter what will it matter. thansk

 

[coco*butter]

thanks waterdrop.

fish store owner has a degree in marine biology and has been keeping fish for 30 some odd years. She seems to be very knowledgeable but i wanted to see what the concensus on here was before i did it. She didnt make any promises on this like it was a miracle cure to cycle faster or anything, she just said " it would help to oxygenate the water in the filter at one of the prime places for the bacteria to grow". I think i am going to try it and see what happens, i have very large HOB filters and dont think it will mess it up. I will let you guys know. Dont really have a way of knowing if it does any good for the nitrogen cycle but if it doesnt affect the filter what will it matter. thansk

Wow that sad A marine biologist working at a pet store?

 

[meguro]

Place an upside down cup or something above the airstone so it catches the bubbles and holds them in the tank. Would this help? And by how much?

 

[waterdrop]

thanks waterdrop.

fish store owner has a degree in marine biology and has been keeping fish for 30 some odd years. She seems to be very knowledgeable but i wanted to see what the concensus on here was before i did it. She didnt make any promises on this like it was a miracle cure to cycle faster or anything, she just said " it would help to oxygenate the water in the filter at one of the prime places for the bacteria to grow". I think i am going to try it and see what happens, i have very large HOB filters and dont think it will mess it up. I will let you guys know. Dont really have a way of knowing if it does any good for the nitrogen cycle but if it doesnt affect the filter what will it matter. thansk

Interesting, a large HOB was the scenerio I was thinking might work best for this. Will be interested in the outcome of your experiment if you try it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tolak]

I wouldn't leave the tank unattended with air flowing up the intake of a hob filter. You risk getting an air pocket around the impeller, and the pump cavitating. This means the air pocket spins around the impeller, and no water is pumped. Water flow helps to cool many hob filters, this would be the same as running the filter dry.

I've had this happen before running hob filters along with sponge filters. Moving the sponge filter around when working on the tank, bubbles go up the intake of the hob, it stops pumping and makes racket.

 

[waterdrop]

Yeah, it probably -is- too much of a risk. I was picturing somehow positioning a small airstone at the back of a large AquaClear rectangular box with a few media layers between where the airstone would be and where the pump intake is for return of the filtered water to the aquarium. But bubbles by their very nature have a way of getting everywhere and sometimes building up, so even careful positioning wouldn't guarantee you wouldn't eventually get cavitation I guess...

 

[johnnyjohnson]

she didnt say to put it in the intake tube, rather underneath one of the media containers, which would be after the impeller. I dont see the potential of bubbles going down and against the flow of water to get into the impeller, but we will se. I am going to try it tonight and will post anything that happens tommorow. Iwill try to post some pics

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I'd suggest heavily oxygenating the water by running a fairly low water level as the flow back in from your hob as a little weaterfall will create much more oxygen content in the water than an airstone could hope too. This combined with maybe some extra water circulation from a powerhead would give best distribution throughout the water column.